I'll admit I've got a past that makes most people look like the aforementioned saints. I also will flatly state that without that past, I would not be the person I am today. Since somebody wants to hire me for who I am today, why should I be embarrased about the past that shaped me?

You shouldn't be. Employers might wanna - gasp - hire you based on what you bring to the job, not some retarded personal shit you did years ago, or what you write on your MySpace page.

In jobs where you must deal with the public, or where you must teach children, I think retarded things written on MySpace are definitely fair game.

Obviously we'd have to take the content into consideration (Talking about how you love those tasty young boys probably would be something that would get you in trouble as a teacher!) but really, for the most part, why does it matter?

You could argue, MAYBE, that a kid could find something written by their teacher that might be questionable, but even then...welcome to the real world, kid. Adults say and do adult things, even teachers and parents. They get to have lives, too. I'm not sure why we're so afraid of children being aware of this fact, that's always boggled me too.

And why is said kid surfing the web on their own anyway if we're so afraid of them being scarred, there's a lot worse things he could run across than his teacher posting on Facebook about getting drunk last night. (UNLESS the teacher directed students to said page.)

I dunno, I guess it just gets on my nerves how we're such a vouyeristic, judgmental, hypocritical society. It's awesome to see some white trash woman, three crying kids, puffing on a cigaratte with what looks like herpes-infected lips bashing Bristol Palin for getting pregnant.

I posted that cartoon on another board in a similar thread! I always liked it.

A story related to this that I think is really sad:

I know a guy who ran a fairly large WoW gaming website. It wasn't huge, but it was fairly busy and popular, more posts than we get here, at least. =) Very clean site, strict rules, no flaming/porn/profanity/goatse/etc allowed.

One day the site simply vanished. No warning, no forwarding address, no nothing.

After a while of tracking some members down in WoW and IRC we found out what happened. The owner of the site applied for an internship at a law firm and realized that the domain name of the website was registered in his name and he freaked out and panicked that someone might find out that he was a gamer, so he simply tried to destroy all the "evidence".

That, to me, was one of the saddest testaments to how afraid we all are to be ourselves.

So THAT'S what happened to Jinjin...

That definitely seems over the line of ridiculousness.

I thought World of Warcraft was socially acceptable in today's society, regardless of country... is it not?

And to broaden it further... I thought video/computer games were perfectly acceptable in today's culture. Why would a law firm care if someone played video games, or a MMORPG? Is that really a bad thing to do?!?

I mean I can agree if said individual is getting smashed three nights a week, driving while intoxicated home all three times... yeah. Or said individual is getting into a bar fight once every two weeks... yeah. Or said individual is a frequent visitor to the local gentleman's club, instead of a once-a-year or so deal... yeah.

But playing video games? A MMORPG? Especially World of Warcraft?

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i don't think playing the game reflects poorly, but running a site with forums that are visited by your average wow player probably would.

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I think it's more a case of 'some people are just fucking idiots.' My guess is the dude who did that wasn't exactly a normal dude.

And for the record, I'm not saying it is right. I'm saying that's the way it is. I get it "fight the power" etc... but who wants to be a martyr.

And beyond that - life is all about marketing and building your personal brand. What is said about you online is part of your brand.

Bottom line, I am just as smart and crafty with a scruffy beard, sweat pants, and long hair. BUT - that is not the brand I need. Instead, I keep my (balding) hair short and shave clean. I wear long sleeve dress shirts and suit pants to work. Why? Because my brand is clean cut development manager.

Let's face it, Burger King would taste the same in a white carton that says "eat this shit", but that's not how they sell it.


Anyway, the point remains - it's sad because now we have to work even harder as individuals to protect our brand... whereas just 10 years ago it wasn't as hard.

And as a side note, I work with several guys who play WoW, including my boss. I play with them some and it's funny I was talking to my boss about it in the hall and when I stepped on the elevator we stopped because there were other people present.

When we got off the elevator we both laughed because a couple of the guys wouldn't have the sense to cut off the discussion of, "yeah and I tried going Blood spec to see if it made up for losing the ghoul."

That's a really depressing thought.

so is spending your life chasing the bigger dollar, but if you're like me and really enjoy what you do to work, living with a professional image is about the most minimal sacrifice you can possibly make

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plus you get more sexin'

Not really. It's only depressing if you're lazy, stupid, and have a shitty personal brand

There are norms in society. Some norms are a little stupid, but most have root in good reason. Showering is a good social norm.

This is a bit of a generalization, but I find non-conformists to be lazy and stupid. OK, it's a gross generalization, but I can't think of any exceptions.

It's not about chasing money or anything like that, as randy said, it's about being fulfilled. Sure, I could stop shaving, talk WoW all day, and wear sweat pants. But, then I wouldn't have the resources or freedom to do the things I want.

I think people frequently assume 9 to 5'rs are miserable mice in a maze and that's not true.

Well, either you exaggerated a bit or you really meant that life is all about what people think about you.

If it's the former, ok. If it's the latter, then really, I do find that depressing.

And yes, I probably live a life that you'd find "lazy" and "stupid". That's ok. My single and solitary goal in life is to be happy, and I am. I don't have any important external goals other than that. <3

Unless you enjoy being completely alone, life is all about what people think about you.

On a personal front, what people think about you matters.
On a public front, what people think about you matters.

That doesn't mean you're fake or you pose, it means that you show some emotional and professional intelligence.

Trying to avoid the semantic battle here, but I disagree.

I'm acidic, outspoken, and bullheaded. I'm also a doting father and dedicated provider for my family. I can either focus my energies on raising my family well and teaching them right from wrong, or I can worry about what Sally Jenkins in Accounting thinks of me.

Does this mean I'm going to go out of my way to piss Ms. Jenkins off? No. Does it mean if I accidentally do so, I won't try to make amends? No. But it also doesn't mean I'm going to fret over my every word before I carefully orchestrate my next conversation with her.

There's a line here. If you spend your life living for other's opinions of you, I have news for you - you'll never live for yourself.

That's all this really is. There are degrees, but ultimately, Bov is trying to play this as "bizness is all about fronting a facade".

Can't you do both? And this is where the semantics come in. I never said sit around and worry about Sally.

And I never said orchestrate your conversations. I realize I wrote "life is about your brand" and that sounds like fodder to jump on. But it is. That doesn't mean you're calculating and phony. It means you're the person you want to be.

You just said your bullheaded. Is that the brand you want? If you have to get something through accounting, do you take it Sally and say, "here is this request and I need it now." When she says, "we can't do this now" do you turn away and say, "I don't need to hear this get it done."

To me, branding yourself isn't being fake - it's setting goals for the way you want to be. Obviously there are insincere people, and we have all met them. So, when people read what I write they want to see it as me saying "don't be yourself."

No - I'm saying be the best you can be and live that life. People who say "I don't care what people think" usually say that because being a complete person is damn hard. When someone tells me something that is patently stupid, it is much easier for me to be rude and dismiss them, saying "look, I don't care what people think." It is much harder to try to understand where they're coming from and find a middle ground or way to persuade them.

But, I want the brand of "that guy who is really sharp and understanding" rather than "that dick who thinks he knows everything."

Everyone has a different set of values and a slightly different brand, but I think saying "I'm being myself" is usually a cop-out. That's like someone saying "I'm just naturally fat" as an excuse to suck down 12 White Castles.

I am not saying you fret your life away worrying about other's random opinions. But, how you impact others and make them feel is what mostly defines your life. Again, you have to take away your cynicism of all the fake people you met.

I guess, like Syuni said, there's a line there.

You can say you don't act fake or anything, but between the two of us, you're the one that stops conversations about perfectly reasonable hobbies when someone else enters the room because you don't want people to hear. Stuff like that just - to me at least - reeks of, "I don't want people to think of me as I am, I want them to think of me as someone else."

I mean, dressing nicely, being hygienic, acting polite, being civil with people...yeah, that's all basic social graces. (Even though I fail at those too sometimes.) But doing things like cutting off perfectly normal conversations like that just because someone else enters the room is kinda weird.

Do you ever tell crude jokes?
Do you ever talk to your friends about a hot girl?
Do you ever chat at work about getting drunk the weekend before?
Do you discuss whether Warriors are balanced as tanks with Frost spec'd Death Knights?
Do you discuss spending $1000 to get front row seats at Wrestlemania?

We all have things we think and discuss that don't fit the social norms of all situations. We don't change our lives and hobbies, but we don't broadcast our more eccentric tastes.

Yes, but not loud enough for patrons to hear, since there's old folks and children around and I don't really wanna get busted for telling some terrible joke in earshot of a kid.



You kidding? We talk about hot patrons all the time. <3



I've never once been drunk, so no.



On the phone with my wife in earshot of everyone, yes.



If I did buy those tickets, I'd talk about them, yes.

You don't tell crude jokes in front of everyone? Why be so fake? Who gives the world the power to determine who you can tell a joke in front of?
Yet you openly discuss hot girls?
Why is that behavior OK in some situations, but not OK in others?

Obviously, the point remains - we adjust our behaviors based on social situations.

Most people look at social norms through their own eyes. That is, in your opinion crude jokes are bad, hot girls are OK, and WoW is OK.

And that's fine.

But to me, life is about looking at norms through other people's eyes. If you act/talk in a certain way - how will that make them feel? What reaction will that trigger in them. What consequences (direct or indirect) will that cause. If you answer is "who gives a crap", fine.

But, to lead I think you have to do that. And I feel it leads to a greater sense of happiness.

Because there's a difference between spouting off profanity/innuendos/etc in front of customers and potentially children, and just talking about perfectly clean things like gaming and Wrestlemania.

This thread is worthless without pics. Someone get Tarot a flimsy white T-shirt and a pitcher of water.

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Do they make you wear a bunch of bling at the TGI Friday's where you work, Bov?

Flair. The term is flair!

If you were making a point there, I missed it.

We're not in Kansas anymore.

office space dawg

Yes, I know the reference. I said I missed whatever point he was trying to make.

I was poking fun of your job as a waiter, of course.

But I'm not a waiter, sir.

You do a great job bringing me my beer.

<-- Works in a Library, for future reference.

We call those Liberries in the south.

Yeah, I know. ><

More than I few times I've asked if people think we're a fruit stand or something, as often as I hear the word "berries".

So people who visit libraries are called customers/patrons? Weird.

What - other than "patron" (Which is the proper term, by the way) - would you call someone who uses the library?

Those Who Partake of the Word?

Kindle Commies?

I used to work in a library! That was a great job. Sometimes I'd pull an evening shift in the microfiche department and get to spend 6 uninterrupted hours doing homework or reading (because who the fuck uses microfiche anymore?). Decent pay, cool coworkers, sexy patrons to chat up, and...

Yeah, I like it. I'm sure the Orme's and Elessar's of the world will inform me that I'm a moron slacker who'll never climb the ladder of success at this rate, but it's a nice job, low stress, decent pay for the work, I like it, I have access to a lot of really great materials, and I even get to help the occasional person who's actually trying to learn something! And my co-workers and patrons don't think less of my "Personal Brand" if I have long hair and talk about WoW.

It pays the bills, keeps all the animals fed and the 4+ acres kept up, keeps me in my gaming addiction, etc etc.

I used to work in a high-pay, high-stress job where I got told how to dress, how to act, how to live, who to associate with, blah blah blah. Fuck it.

Am I a waste of potential? Probably. At the risk of going on a Skycrasher-eqsue tirade about how awesome I am, I was one of those kids that they tried to push ahead 2 or 3 grades at a time, passed my mensa entrance exams at 13, had colleges coming after me just on virtue of my test scores, blah blah blah.

At some point though, I guess I just asked myself, "Why?" And realized that there were a lot more important things in life than stressing out and measuring success in degrees and dollars. If that's what works for others, that's great for them. Me? I live comfortably, don't stress about much at all, spend most of every day smiling and most importantly have a wonderful wife that's always happy to see me.

What more do I need out of life, exactly? Orme can call me an idiot with a shitty brand, but oh well. That won't wipe the smile off my face!

Damn, this post got long. I guess it really WAS Skycrasher-esque!

(ETA on Khan posting to call me a hippie? )

There is a difference in your opinion. That's the core point I keep making and you keep missing.

I don't hide my nerdness from people I am close with.
I would hope if it was my first day on the job you wouldn't poke me in the ribs and say "look at the hot ass on that girl."
The same way, I don't want to spout about games and crap like that around people who do not know me.

If you don't give a crap, then who am I to tell you that you should?

My wife is a complete anti-nerd. All her friends are complete anti-nerd. My nerdness is part of my charm to them. But the first time we met I didn't proclaim I LOVE WRESTLEMANIA, ANY STONE COLD FANS HERE?

I never called you a moron or a slacker or comment on your job. I did say when I hear people say "I don't care what anyone thinks", it usually stems from stupidity or laziness rather than some conviction in a greater good. Of course I can't prove it, but oh well.

I know it's fun to poke at "Personal Brand", but we all have an image we proejct. If you're 100% happy with the one you have, great.

This is what always amuses me. People assume that high pay = high stress. Not everyone has to make a lot of money. That's not a measure of success. But, for some reason people with low pay assume those with high pay have it worse. I have never understood that assumption. When I read it, I see it as a defense mechanism that people use to tell themselves they have a good excuse not to achieve more because they would have "stress".


It sounds like you're trying hard to prove to us you're happy.
Not sure why you're internalizing this so much.
Success isn't about IQ, it's about how you apply the talents you have.

Happiness isn't about how much money you have, it's about how often you do the things you choose. If you go to work every day and mostly enjoy it and have the resources to be secure and able to do the hobbies you want, then that's fine.

You don't have to prove it to me.

<Trigonometric proof goes here>

It wasn't an assumption, it was my experience. Granted, one job's worth of experience, but oh well.



I wasn't trying to prove anything, just offering some perspective on my end I guess.

You like your job and you're not whining about it. I don't see any problem here. And for the record, my wife worked part time at a library (before taking up semi-professional poker) for similar reasons. I was completely supportive. Do what makes you happy, so long as you're happy.



Heh, I do about 75% of my work from home. The other 25% is schmoozing and customer sites. I enjoy it, and frankly, when it is stressful, I enjoy that too. To each his own.



Jim Young: They say money can't buy happiness? Look at the fucking smile on my face. Ear to ear, baby. Anybody who tells you money is the root of all evil doesn't fucking have any.

In all serious, you can be happy without money, but I guarantee you'll be happier not having to worry about checks clearing, bills being paid, or whether you can afford the cool new piece of shit you're buying.

Yes.

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

This is the truth.

Money might not be able to buy your way into super happiness and peace, but it sure can buy you out of all the depression, stress, panic and general shittiness that can come with being broke.

It's not just opinion.

If I spout some dirty joke in front of a kid, I get fired. It's not about what the people around me think about the fact that I just said it, it's the fact that I lose my job. Period.

If I talk about gaming around people, no one cares. But you choose not to do so because you don't like that people will know you're a gamer.

One is fear of losing a job completely, one is just being afraid of what people think of you.

stop posting

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No shit. In any event, it's probably not so much about being afraid of what people might think as it could be being worried that you'll be stereotyped and perhaps overlooked due to the negative "image" that many gamers have. I don't really care what Joe Blow thinks about me, but if my higher-ups get it in their heads that I'm some loser gamer who plays evil video games like Grand Theft Auto (gasp!) and they decide that maybe they shouldn't give me this big project or whatever, it doesn't hurt to just keep that information from them to begin with.

^^^ correct

Oh well. It's just gonna be a difference of opinion, I guess.



and



Sound strikingly similar to me.

Oh well. It's all just very sad.