http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 9c080.html

This story is unbelievably fucked up and sad. Here's the jist.

A woman is dying, she's had a long fight with cancer...and she is dying. Her family is called to rush to her bedside, she literally has no time left.

Family flies in from all over.

A man and his wife, and other relatives fly in, get a car at the airport and are told by the hospital to get there ASAP...because they simply may not make it in time. It is his wife's mother.

As he's rushing to the hospital, JUST before the hospital he hits a long red light. There is only one other car there, he turns on his hazards. The other car stops, and motions him to go through the red.

He does. A police officer sees this and goes to pull him over. He pulls into the parking lot of the hospital and finds parking at the ER lot (where there's always open parking for patients.

The man's wife exits the car, they're all trying to tell the officer what's going on (and do). The officer draws his gun and screams for everyone to stay in the car.

The relatives in the back of the car exit and enter the hospital. The officer is now focusing on the husband. He puts his hands on the car, because he was afraid the officer might shoot him. The woman also realizes the cop doesn't care about her dying mother.

The entire time the husband is BEGGING this cop, informing him that the mother only has minutes to live, PLEASE, give me a ticket, do whatever you have to do, BUT LET US GET IN THERE.

The cop threatens the man repeatedly, and starts (slowly) telling him all the things he can charge him with. Fleeing. Evading arrest. Illegally parking. He threatens repeatedly to take him to jail and REALLY ruin his day.

The husband at this point is simply responding 'Yes Sir' to everything.

Hospital staff come out and inform the officer that the mother really is dying and has just minutes left. The officer doesn't care. Security guards come out and tell him. Another officer shows up even.

The officer doesn't care, and continues to take his sweet time. He gets in the car, and starts to request if there's any outstanding warrants on the driver blah blah blah.

At some point I believe the wife (daughter of the dying woman) is whisked away (she had no obligation to stay anyway, the cop was just being a dick).

The husband gets the ticket. He's still begging the cop to please just do this so he can see the mother before she dies. The cop, after finishing the ticket CONTINUES TO DETAIN HIM to verbally berate the man. 'If only you had told me from the beginning...this ALL could have been avoided and I might have let you go up. But nooooo'

The mother dies before the husband gets there.

The police officer was white. The family black.

Oh, I forgot to mention, probably because AT NO TIME did the man mention it to try for a special favor. The man is an NFL football player named Ryan Moats.

And the entire incident was caught on the officer's unit camera. The police chief is fucking appalled, as well he should be. Apparently he was choked up even commenting about it, and had to censor himself regarding comments of the officer's behavior.

I tend to defend police officers, since I'm married to one and I know a lot of them. They do a difficult job.

I do not know of a single officer who wouldn't have said 'My god, let's go!' and RUSHED that family out of the car and into the hospital. If they had been lying, they would have then charged them with every possible charge, including 'hindering investigation' (the name varies but basically if you lie to the cops during the course of investigation they'll throw this in too). I can't think of a single one who wouldn't have at bare min. taken the step to verify the story...and if TRUE, done everything within their power to help and assist ANYONE in such a situation.

I've even heard, as I'm sure you have, of police officers giving an sirened escort for someone once they verify the story, or taking them in their unit at top speed, to get them there in time.

Someone who shows such absolute disregard for other human beings, someone who demonstrates such a disgraceful lack of common sense and decency and someone who is this badge heavy SHOULD NOT have authority over other people, and shouldn't have a badge and gun.

I hope they fire this asshole. This isn't a mistake where you can understand his side of it, and argue that it sucks but it's a human error and training can fix it.

He's a bad apple, toss his ass out of the barrel.

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I just watched that video this morning and was appalled. The *worst* part was when the hospital staff came out, told the officer about the mother-in-law, the other cop tells the jackhole cop "The lady *really* is dying in there..." and then jackhole cop says "Ok, I'm almost done..."

That's fucked up. I'm glad that the daughter was able to see her mother one last time at least.

Hard to say if it's racism or not IMO... The more and more stories I hear of this ilk, I'm convinced people will do incredibly fucked up shit to others whether it happens to be racism or anything else. Some people have these weird fucking buttons that go off at the slightest hint... Seems like it can even be so little as body language that ticked them off after a rough day or some such.

Yeah, the article I read said the nurse didn't just tell him the woman was dying either. She said she had been blue coded three times.

I haven't seen the video, I don't want to see the video, I think I'd start screaming. Seriously.

But I've heard from someone that apparently at one point staff (they thought it was a doctor) came out and stated they needed permission to ressectate (sp) or not. And they thought it was at THAT point the wife went in (without the officer's permission). Since she gave permission she was technically there when she died, but I guess the woman wasn't conscious. I don't know though if they had expected her to be...but she was there when she passed away.

Also, I'm the last person, seriously...to believe it's about race in situations like this. There are assholes no matter what color your skin. I'm also not making that conclusion because this happened in Texas...I've found most Southern people I've known to be far LESS racist than people I've known on the east coast or west coast. Just my POV.

But I do think in this instance had the family been white, the officer wouldn't have taken their emotions as a challenge to him. That's the racism. I don't think he thought 'Hey I'm gonna fuck with these blah blah blahs', I think he's a bigot and racist who sees a black woman jump out and yell...and points his gun at her.

I would bet you a substantial amount he would not have pointed that gun at ME in identical circumstances, and I guarentee you that physically I'd probably seem a lot more threatening at 5'9" with red hair and a BIG fucking mouth.

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I'm rather surprised that his car camera wasn't 'accidentally' turned off.

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Hope is the new black.

Most police car cameras that I'm aware of, the officer has no control over the camera, or access to the wiring/etc.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

Yup, the only way they can turn it off is by shutting the engine down and disconnecting the battery.

I expect the scenario was something along the lines of the cop seeing them go through the red light and say to himself, "So, you think the laws don't apply to you? I'll show you."

I DO know that cops have to get in a certain mindset to do their job. They have to toughen themselves up mentally to handle virtually any excuse you can think of and to deal with the pressures of not knowing if the person in the car they just pulled over has a gun or not.

One of my friends is a cop, and his fiance learned early on that he needs some quiet time to be alone after a shift so he could stop thinking like a cop and start thinking like a human being again. It's not like for the rest of us where we just go to work then go home. It's hard to explain I guess.

Regardless, a member of law enforcement DOES need to be able to detach themselves emotionally, but have the ability to process any situation, including one like this.

I could see this cop being in that mode of thought and not coming out of it, but still I think there's a lot of asshole factor that was happening too here.

I think back to the taser threads, and I'm wondering if the people who were so gung ho with, "they are COPS, if you don't follow them, you deserve whatever you get" will stick to their guns, so to speak.

Had the man ignored the cop and ran into the hospital which resulted in a tasing? Yup. He didn't though, so instead we get to talk about how big of a dick the cop was rather than how big of a moron the guy was.

Anyway, what do the topics have to do with one another? 'Person ignores lawful order and gets tased' is quite a bit different from 'cop is complete douche and person does as ordered.'

I think there's also a slight difference in mind about doing "as ordered" when faced with a real gun/screaming cop instead of a taser.

Heh, I didn't wanna bring it up. I agree the situations are quite different.

Still though,



If we follow this, shouldn't we still be making fun of the guy for running a red light? Does a cop need to be there to tell me he doesn't want me to run a red light?

Also, I dunno if we can take the cop's word for it, but if it's true that he "evaded arrest/fleed"(in other words, the guy probably didn't park right on the side of the road, but tried to get as close to the hospital as possible before he parked... which is perfectly understandable)... can we make fun of him for that too?

If you REALLY don't want to get tazed, sure... don't disobey the cop. Duh. But, the whole point from people like Fribur who disagreed with some of those tazings was that such a disobeying isn't necessarily justification for the cop tazing the person, especially if the person is under control and there's no sign of danger.

To put it more plainly... I think Fribur's point here might be better put as: If the guy had made a beeline for the hospital door when the officer had a tazer pointed at him(a gun in this case, but to make the analogy appropriate), would it still be ok to laugh if he got tazered or shot? I know I wouldn't have laughed.

I honestly think I'd be close to tears if I watched a video of a guy trying to make one last mad dash away from a pile of shit dirty cop only to get tazered down while he tried desperately to see his mother-in-law in her dying moments.

More information on this (you can go to KDFW Fox 4 for a lot of details):

1) (and this does not make any difference) the man is Houston Texans running back Ryan Moats.

2) At the very beginning of the incident there was someone running from the car and the officer removed his gun from the holster (not blamed for this, understandable)

3) I understand that Mr. Moats was under MAJOR stress, but it sounded like he told the officer "you get it" when the officer asked for the man's insurance.

4) The officer was approached by a Plano police officer and also told the officer the situation and the officer continued with his "I am in control here, you will leave when I am done" speech.

5) the officer has been put on administrative leave (needs to be suspended)

6) the local uproar has been huge. Nearly every TV and Radio station have covered this and it is getting UGLY

someone is reporting that this is officer Powell's MySpace page. I can't access it here at work...

Shitty tat.
Spells "and" as "n".
Spells "you" as "u"

Kill this son of a bitch.

Ah he is 25 years old and has a tatoo of his job on his arm, great.. Fire him .

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"Creating Havoc and Pie Since 2001!"
My Website: http://www.anthonyhays.com
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He is l33t.

MySpace. The white trash of the Internets.

I don't give a fuck what color anyone involved was, a stupid ass is a stupid ass.

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Marauder Harabakc Goat

Two theories I have read/heard is that the officer is anti-black and an obvious racist (supposedly some history with him dealing with blacks in a negative manner)... and "supposedly" he knew the guy and wanted to be a big/bad cop against a celebrity since most celebrities get away with stuff from cops.

It is really sad. If anything cop should have walked the guy up to the hospital room, let the guy have his time with the woman, and *maybe* then done his ticket/cop thing. I am not a police officer, but I wonder if these guys are taught to be "robots" in all situations instead of being a "human" and showing compassion and understanding.

Sad story all around.

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Prick's gonna have fun getting that tattoo removed. Infuriating, hugely egotistical abuse of power.

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What bothers me even more is that he refuses to apologize. Doesn't there come a point when, say, the whole country says "Hey man, you acted like a giant douche" where you have to admit that maybe you acted like a giant douche?

There's a world of difference between a situation where a driver is, for no good reason, deliberately disobeying a police officer's orders and this situation, where the people involved had an obviously good reason for what they were doing and the cop was aware of it.

The cop was wrong here. In most of the videos I've seen a cop use a taser, they were justified in its use and the driver should have shut the fuck up and di what they were told.

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My knee jerk is that I can't understand how it isn't racially motivated. Could the officer just be on a power trip? Sure. But, I have a hunch that if it was a middle class white family, the guy would have been more understanding. Had it been a white guy in a super expensive car, I dunno.

And, had the guy been roaring down a 35 mph zone at 90 and blowing through lights, I would have a different opinion.

To continue being devil's advocate... is there? I remember post after post about how cops have to assume the worst, to protect themselves. Maybe everyone involved was lying and it was some kind of coverup to a crime, or something. The cop was just doing his job. The man broke the law, and he must suffer the consequences.

That's not Devil's Advocate, that's pure make believe. At no point did the cop do or say anything that would indicate that he felt he had uncovered some vast conspiracy that encompassed not only the two he had pulled over, but nurses, security guards and another cop.

He was just following procedure.

Did you actually look at the story? I don't have a probelm with the cop pulling them over or getting an explanation. For the most part, that is all reasonable. The point at which they are at the hospital and the person is begging to go inside, a little humanity and judgment needs to kick in. Even at that point, I could ALMOST be convinced, maybe. But, when the hospital staff chime in, it goes beyond reasonable.

There really is no devil's advocate here. We can argue all day about whether it was racially motivated. But, the overall situation certainly doesn't pass the sniff test. At a minimum, this guy lacks the judgment to be a police officer. At worse, he's a flaming racist. My guess is the truth is somewhere between those extremes: he wanted to teach that black asshole a lesson.

Come on, you're being obtuse. I am not a cop, but I am guessing "procedure" has room for reasonable flexibility. Law enforcement is not simple black and white.

If you want to play that card, then every single cop that doesn't pull someone over going 56 in a 55 should be fired for failing to follow procedure.

I AM being deliberately obtuse. How you are responding right now is how I felt about the taser threads when people were like, "fuck you, you deserve to get tased if you don't follow a cop's instructions. Their job is dangerous, so they have to do this!"

I think there is a degree of judgment that needs applied.
I don't know what thread you're talking about.

Any taser thread so far on these boards.

And that point of all that was...what?

The people who disagreed with you in the taser threads still disagree with you. And the people who think that what the cop did in this thread was fucked up, still think it was fucked up.

Link one that you think is comparable to this situation where people defended the cop.

I think a lawsuit is in order.

What the cop said right here is true, Orme, and it was the basic premise of both of the major taser threads. "When a cop gives a lawful order, you follow it or you will get tased. It's your own fault." That was the essence of posts from many of you.

Here's another cop, being a total douche, but giving a lawful order nonetheless. If you (those of you who posted that way in the other threads) wish to be consistent, then if man had decided to ignore the cop here it would have been ok for the cop to do whatever he wanted in the name of the law.

Of course, that isn't the case. All I'm asking is that perhaps some thought about how people are coming to these conclusions is worth doing.

Obviously, I think what happened here was horrible, and I think the cop should get into serious trouble.

If the man had ignored the cop's lawful order and had been tased as a result, I would say that the cop was discharging his duty AND was a total douche and should be fired. Even though these things would have happend in the same period of time, they would be two seperate events.

Man ignores lawful order and gets tased = ok
Cop ignores nurses, security guards and another cop that verify the man's story and decides to keep the man detained at his car so that he can lecture him rather than allowing him to go be at the side of his mother-in-law as she dies = not ok, and imo grounds for termination

But the guy here did not disobey a lawful order. If he did he would have told the cop to call his agent to take care of it and he was going in the hospital. Other than running the red light and not stopping when the officer turned on his lights he did not do anything wrong. I believe that in other taser threads the person was asked to leave or he would be tased, the guy continued to resist so he got tased.

Except that you're pretending as if we don't care what the reasoning is behind the person fleeing. As if we argued that you ALWAYS follow the cop's orders, even if you have a good reason not to. That's not what's being said. In just about every instance of tasering I've seen, the person not following the cop's directions had NO reason for disobeying, or if they did they didn't make the officer aware of the reason. They were just being belligerent. In this case, the cop was aware of a GOOD reason for the driver to not stop and did not act on that info.

Yes, you follow the cop's orders. Every rule has its exceptions, however, and in this case there was an exception.

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Here's the youtube footage. Sorry it's not embedded but it's been disabled. And I personally think that he should be fired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNyoLL8YmR4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxOmXBwv-0Y

He is a racist fucktard, fire his ass.

Again what does race have to do with any of this? Fire his ass because he's fucking horrible at his job.

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Marauder Harabakc Goat

Actually, that is pretty much exactly what I took away from those taser threads from more than a few people. That there is never a reason why someone should disobey a direct order from a cop, because if you have done nothing wrong/have nothing to hide, you shouldn't care that the officer is just doing his job and cooperate, and if you DO disobey, you deserve whatever you get.

I don't agree, but that certainly seemed to be their arguments.

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I'm not alone in noticing this! phew

Again, there's an exception to every rule.

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Can you guys post one of these taser threads that are comparable to this situation?

If you have one where a cop tasers some guy who is just standing there trying to talk to the cop, I will take your side. The guy was not fighting or arguing with the cop. He got a little snippy, but for the most part he was pleading.

Most taser cases I have seen is the cop saying "do this" and the person saying "I don't have to do that." Those actions generate a lot more threat and will likely get aggro.

And as a side note, when the 2 kids are trying to run in side, the cop tells them stop and they do. They only actually go all the way when the cop says "ok, you two go" or something like that. If nothing else, it gives me a lot of respect for this guy and his family. For the most part, he showed excellent judgment in a horrible situation. Of course, he would have been smarter to pull over at the red light, wait for the cop and say "please let me get to the hospital." The same situation might have arisen, but the act of fleeing causes a great deal of concern on the part of any cop. Of course, common sense at a certain point should have kicked in.

http://www.kwch.com/global/story.asp?s=7446220

Sorry. That's still my favorite of the tazer stories. Not ENTIRELY relevant here.

Back on task.

Ultimately, I think the problem here is that in order for any authoritarian party to be effective, there can't be conditions. You either obey them or you don't. While it is nice to think that you get to decide when to obey them and when not to, how does that actually make the job you expect them to do even possible in the real world? How do they KNOW you're just the good guy that really had to get into that house because X happened as opposed to you being the bad guy that says he has to get into the house because X happened, as you are running in?

They don't.

Any time I have an encounter with the police and I choose to not respect their authority, I do it full well knowing I can end up in handcuffs, tasered, whatever. But to pretend that there is some magical line where you get input on when it is a good time and a bad time to obey a cop's orders and that will make everything ok? Kinda missing the point of authoritarian police forces in general. You don't get to decide. They do. And you either live with that or break the rules and accept the consequences.

Don't mistake that as me arguing in favor of this dude. He lost any support he might have once the medical staff came out. I'm just musing in general on the idea of "Now is/isn't a good time to obey the cop" arguments.

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Do a search for "taser" and you'll find it here on these boards. Every single thread there has been has the same kind of responses.

I will point out though (again) that it isn't the situation that provides the disconnect, it's what Rugen posted-- the responses given in those threads aren't consistent with the responses here.

The only thing that wasn't obeyed was the cop's signal for them to pull over. There are many reasons why someone would not or could not pull over, most of them medical emergencies of one sort or another. If your child is seriously injured and the quickest way to get them to the hospital is by running that light and ignoring the cop, you're going to do it. And no cop in their right mind should do anything but get you into the ER as soon as possible once you step out of that car with your injured child in your arms. The same goes for a family desperately trying to get to see a dying relative before it's too late.

Yes, you should follow an officer's instructions, and yes, if you don't, you can get tasered. Police officers have one of the most dangerous jobs in the world. They don't know you. They don't know if you're an upstanding citizen or if you've got a gun under your seat and you're just trying to distract the cop long enough to pull it and kill them. So be quiet, follow their instructions, and don't make their job any more difficult than it already is. If there's something important going on, tell the officer. A good cop is going to acknowledge it and help you out. A bad one is going to do what this asshole did.

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I did. I didn't see any that were comparable. I think you're generalizing.

There is a big difference between a guy getting out of a car saying "please let me go into the hospital" and someone saying "up yours" and walking away.

They are talking about the "don't tase me bro" dude, the stupid hidi kid that refused to leave the computer lab and the dumb whore that wouldn't get off her cellphone and yelled to her husband for help when being pulled over.

All three of which were warned beforehand and were just being public shitbags and got exactly what they deserved minus the 15 mins of fame.

We're in agreement on that. I just think our opinion of how many "good ones" there are is where it differs. heh.

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Third time!

I figured that might be the case.

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I think the latest/last one people were talking about was the muslim UCLA student that got tased over and over, even while restrained/cooperating, because he was in the student computer lab without a student ID.