Devyn wrote:
I'll be the first to admit that I'm an idiot when it comes to this kind of thing, but from my very limited understanding (which I just used various websites to remember...not just wikipedia, I promise), gravity doesn't rely at all on centripetal force. If the Earth were to stop rotating tomorrow, we would still be prevented from free-floating due to gravity.
Obviously gravity can effect centripetal force, but the same is not true the other way. Centripetal force cannot effect gravity.
Of course, I could be completely wrong.
Gravity doesn't rely on centripetal force. Gravity IS a centripetal force. We can prove gravity by reproducing it through the generation of centrifugal forces to counteract the centripetal forces generated by gravity.
The first thing you have to do, is not be like Bovinity who can read things off of the internet, but not understand what's being read. You know this when you hear him explain centripetal forces,
but instead is giving the exact opposite definitions.
Why? Because he's confusing centrifugal forces and centripetal forces. Very easy to do when you read something too quick without understanding the underlying differences, but also easy to do when you don't really have a fundamental understanding of the subject.
I mean, if it was Bovi's world, scientists wouldn't have
centrifuges, they would have
centripedes. How cool would that be? You could even slap a fucking Atari sticker on the side of that thing!
But back on point.....
Let's talk about your point on gravity. Gravity occurs between any two object with mass. Any 10th grader could tell you that, so it's nothing to be proud of.
What could bring you a step ahead would be.....can you prove to me gravity exists? How many people you think remember how it's done, mathematically speaking? It's one thing to know something, it's another thing to understand it.
Pretend you're Isaac Newton. An apple falls on your head. You come up with an idea that there is this "gravity" thing that exists between any two objects. Smaller, less heavy objects will be pulled towards larger, more massive objects.
Along comes Bovinity. He challenges the very existence of gravity. You can't see it can you? Can you feel it? No! It must be like God then! How can you believe in something you can't feel, can't see, can't affirm?
(Actually, using Bovinity is a poor example here, because if it was Bovinity, then he would have had a basic understanding of Latin for that era, and probably wouldn't be confused between centripetal and centrifugal forces because he would understand better where the root of those words come from. But I digress).
Well, he has a point. What is gravity? Is it a magic elf in the center of all of us that pulls us towards each other through some sort of invisible string?
But you are Isaac mother-fucking Newton, probably the smartest man in the millineum. You are not going to let this nonsense stop you.
So how do you verify your existence of this mysterious thing called gravity?
Well, one thing you notice is celestial bodies. If gravity exists between two objects, and an apple falls from a tree down to the ground, why doesn't the Earth fall into the Sun? Why doesn't the Moon fall into the Earth?
This is where you apply your superior intellect, and basically reinvent calculus to prove your point. If you are a genius, then you are like Newton, and able to derive the Laws of Motion which he is famous for.
So you then realize that these object must be moving at a speed and direction which counteracts the centripetal forces of gravity. If the sun is the center, and the Earth is orbiting the Sun in a perfect circle (let's say), then your theories suggest that the centripetal force of gravity should pull the Earth towards it. To counteract that force, the Earth must move at a rate perpendicular to this centripetal force at an equal rate. This force is the centrifugal force generated by the planetary orbit.
You look at the stars, you calculate the rates of movement of planetary bodies, you apply it to what will here-to-fore be known as Newtonian physics, and voila! Your calculations are correct. You have proven that there is a force that exists known as gravity. What you won't know is what is causing it, and for that, you will have to wait until Einstein is born.
Now, I could supply the equations and solve them for you, but I don't want to get too scientific here, because the most elegant things in nature can be described in the simplest terms. I'm hoping my examples will suffice as far as explaining my point, rather than showing a bunch of scientific equations that may not do you any good if you don't have a working knowledge on the subject anyways. You could always be like Bovinity and think that means I don't know what I'm talking about, when really I'm just trying to make things hopefully more understandible.
But maybe you think Bovi is more knowledgeable than I am about science. Fair enough. This is the same guy that asks me to prove that solid matter will condense when heat is applied, because apparently he's never cooked a hamburger on a BBQ before. But no worries, you believe who you want to believe.
kermode wrote:
Yes, but isn't the earth rather explicitly not a closed system? There is, after all, a rather large external source of energy pouring in.
No, and you simply do not understand the meaning of closed and open systems when it comes to thermodynamics. Solar radiation has nothing to do with crystal formation, or whether or not a system is closed. You were talking about the creation of crystals, were you not? You do not need the earth to create crystals. You can do so in a laboratory.