Quote:What's even more fucked up, Cheney couldn't even manage to shoot retarded flightless birds, and instead managed to shoot someone "hunting" with him, in the face.<
>
And like I said in my first post, I'm not defending Cheney in any way. There's no excuse for shooting someone, ever, of course, unless that was your intention. After all, gun control is hitting your intended target.<
>
<i></i>

Quote:Yeah Ark, but you're defending it BEFORE you knew it happened when he was young. So, c'mon.<
>
Absolutely, I was. I knew it was at least before he held public office, otherwise it would have been plastered all over the news. Whether it was 20 years ago or 50, I feel it has no bearing on this recent shooting. <
>
<
>
Maybe he was drunk. Maybe he was shooting heroin, smoking crack, or snorting fat caterpillar sized rails. The fact of the matter is, any of those are pure speculation. <i></i>

Quote:Dude, I’ve hunted a variety of crap for years and if that stuff can easily happen to you, you don’t a hunters safety course, you need different hunting partners. <
>
<
>
My point was, that type of situation is specifically covered in hunters safety courses. I took mine the day I turned 13, which was 10 years ago but I seriously doubt it's any different, the basics don't change.<
>
<
>
But yeah, I do see it easily happening if someone goes off dicking around and not letting people know where they are.<
>
<
>
Marauder Harabakc Goat<i></i>

_________________
Marauder Harabakc Goat

Quote:But yeah, I do see it easily happening if someone goes off dicking around and not letting people know where they are.<
>
<
>
That's what it sounds like:<
>
<
>
A witness, Katharine Armstrong, said Mr Whittington shot a bird and went to look for it in the tall grass, while Mr Cheney and a third hunter walked to another spot and discovered a second flock. She said: "Whittington came up from behind the Vice-President and the other hunter and didn't signal them or indicate to them or announce himself.<
>
<
>
Accidents happen. <i></i>

_________________
"It so happens that everything that is stupid is not unconstitutional."
-A. Scalia

Maybe he thought the guy was a human-animal hy
id. <i></i>

The Island of Dr. Moreau!! <i></i>

_________________
"It so happens that everything that is stupid is not unconstitutional."
-A. Scalia

Old School <i></i>

_________________

- Yes...I was wrong, it was 2 DWIs and not 3. Unfortunately, my work now blocks pretty much any site that's informative or interesting (luckily, the IM guys are gamers and still leave the EZ board sites ) and I couldn't double check on the information I saw at the website I COULD access. I did when I got home.<
>
<
>
- Yup...it was when he was younger. Question: how many people do you know with more than one DWI? While I'm sure there are exceptions, everyone I know either has gotten sober or has lost their license for continued abuses. Cheney has also had a driver for years so he doesn't have to. Not many folks can afford a driver.<
>
<
>
- Many of us have to speculate what happened because we have no choice...THE WHITE HOUSE REFUSES TO ANSWER LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS. If you have a problem with speculation, take it up with them. Also, there also wouldn't be a need for speculation if everything was on the up-and-up. We aren't the only ones speculating about the alcohol issue. The sherriff was refused an opportunity to see or speak with the Vice President until Sunday morning - 14 hours later. And the report they put out said that alcohol was not a factor? There was no way they could know! Also, the LATEST is that the poor man had birdshot travel into his heart and he suffered a mild heart attack AND IS BEING TREATED BY WHITE HOUSE DOCTORS. It's no wonder that the media is going crazy over it.<
>
<
>
- As reported by thesmokinggun.org, Cheney was hunting illegally as he didn't have an upland bird stamp. I am an avid fisherwoman and the equivalent up here would be catching King Salmon without a King tag...you may have a license, but you didn't pay the extra $15.00 for the tag. That is a big, expensive deal up here, yet Cheney's people seem to
ush that off as if it is nothing. (Rant: the man has almost more money than God and has hunted in Texas for years...he can't plead ignorance and how fucking hard is it to make sure that you are hunting legally? That sure makes you wonder whether he feels that he is above the law.) <i></i>

_________________
Celtic Diva's Blue Oasis

Actually, he's being treated by local doctors in Corpus, not by docs on the WH staff (though they have been consulted). <i></i>

One of my buddy's just got out of jail 4 days ago after spending 45 days there for his 3 DWI's. Yes, it is an exception. <
>
<
>
You know what? So the WH took 24 hours to notify us? Who the fuck cares, I don't. Fact of the matter was, it was an accident between 2 friends. You DON'T have to assume he was drunk. You CAN assume, as they said, it was an accident, but as I said earlier, that doesn't make your panties moist, or good headlines does it? <i></i>

Darth Cheney don't need no stinkin permit! <i></i>

_________________
"Be glad there was a keyboard, monitor and miles of fiber between us when you typed that."

"State that opinion in my presence, you fucktard, and I'll show you how valid it is when I'm kicking the shit out of you."

We should throw him in jail and cut his balls off! <i></i>

...and declaw him! <i></i>

_________________
"Be glad there was a keyboard, monitor and miles of fiber between us when you typed that."

"State that opinion in my presence, you fucktard, and I'll show you how valid it is when I'm kicking the shit out of you."

Just like hitting someone in the rear with a car. It may be an accident but The VP is still at fault. You don't pull the trigger if you are not aware of what is in your field of fire period no exceptions. <
>
<
>
BTW yes i do hunt and if its true about the birds then this is not hunting but shooting just like you don't hunt clay pidgeons.<
>
<
>
<i></i>

Or even better, de-claw his balls! <i></i>

Quote:Although he was hunting illegally when he blasted Austin millionaire Harry Whittington, Cheney will get off with a warning from the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, his office said.<
>
Actually, I will cut him some slack here. I would guess that the officials figured that shooting a guy was plenty without dinging him for the hunting violation.<
>
<
>
However, there really isn't any excuse for him not to be legal.<
>
Quote:While Whittington should have announced himself, seasoned hunters said primary responsibility lies with the shooter.<
>
<
>
"It's incumbent upon the shooter to assess the situation and make sure it's a safe shot," said Mark Birkhauser, president-elect of the International Hunter Education Association. "Once you squeeze that trigger, you can't
ing that shot back."<
>
The very FIRST thing I thought of when this happened: "Why the hell would he shoot without first knowing where everyone is?" That has been echoed by a number of folks I've talked to. Even the Conservative experienced hunters I work with don't see any excuse for this accident on the part of the shooter - whether or not Mr. Whittington announced himself. The ultimate safety responsibility always falls on the person who pulls the trigger.<
>
Quote:We should throw him in jail and cut his balls off!<
>
He's a heart patient and if he takes nitroglycerine it probably doesn't work anyway. <i></i>

_________________
Celtic Diva's Blue Oasis

I'd rather go hunting with Dick Cheney than take a car ride with Ted Kennedy.<
>
<
>
Sorry if someone already said that. <i></i>

Quote:I'd rather go hunting with Dick Cheney than take a car ride with Ted Kennedy.<
>
<
>
Sorry if someone already said that.<
>
But Orme, that doesn't count.<
>
<
>
He was much younger so that should be forgiven.<
>
<
>
Just think of it as a DUI where an accident actually happened, as opposed to one where the driver was lucky that nothing did. D"> <i></i>

_________________
Celtic Diva's Blue Oasis

*sigh*<
>
<
>
My point of it happening 50 years ago wasn't because he was young and should be forgiven, it was to show that nothing like that has heppened in 50 years, so assuming it was alcohol related this time is far fetched.<
>
<
>
And I too would rather hunt with Cheney than ride in a car with Big Head Ted. <i></i>

Quote:My point of it happening 50 years ago wasn't because he was young and should be forgiven, it was to show that nothing like that has heppened in 50 years, so assuming it was alcohol related this time is far fetched.<
>
Regardless of his history...the fishy nature of the accident, the inconsistencies of the timeline, the delay in reporting, the choice of person who announced it to the press and Cheney's "handlers" trying to keep him away from the police until the next morning certainly lead one to question why all the mystery. Considering he was at an expensive lodge with a bunch of older, rich "good ole Texans," it's not a big leap to wonder if alcohol was involved. <i></i>

_________________
Celtic Diva's Blue Oasis

You make me laugh. While you're at it, stop the sky from falling. <i></i>

Quote:Regardless of his history...the fishy nature of the accident, the inconsistencies of the timeline, the delay in reporting, the choice of person who announced it to the press and Cheney's "handlers" trying to keep him away from the police until the next morning certainly lead one to question why all the mystery. Considering he was at an expensive lodge with a bunch of older, rich "good ole Texans," it's not a big leap to wonder if alcohol was involved. Yeah, but I did some checking. Turns out sober politicians lie and hide from the press, too. <i></i>

Quote:While Whittington should have announced himself, seasoned hunters said primary responsibility lies with the shooter.<
>
<
>
"It's incumbent upon the shooter to assess the situation and make sure it's a safe shot," said Mark Birkhauser, president-elect of the International Hunter Education Association. "Once you squeeze that trigger, you can't
ing that shot back."<
>
QFT<
>
<
>
Quote:I'd rather go hunting with Dick Cheney than take a car ride with Ted Kennedy.<
>
<
>
Now that's funny. <i></i>

Quote:"It's incumbent upon the shooter to assess the situation and make sure it's a safe shot," said Mark Birkhauser, president-elect of the International Hunter Education Association. "Once you squeeze that trigger, you can't
ing that shot back."Yup. Cheney should have done everything in his power to make sure the shot was safe. If seeing a man holding still in tall grass wearing camouflage is not within his power... well, it's not in mine or yours either, so I'm not comfortable blaming him. <i></i>

And wearing a
ight orange vest. <i></i>

It's also his job(and everyone else's) to know where his hunting partners are at all times. <i></i>

The guy Cheney shot just had a heart attack (due to being shot).<
>
<
>
Birdshot migration to the heart (dun dun DUNNNN). <
>
<
>
The CNN headline is "Cheney prays for hunt victim". <
>
<
>
<
>
Keep my head from exploding?...<b>You can help!</b><i></i>

Those pictures have nothing to do with being a Republican. <
>
They're just funny. <i></i>

What the fuck is wrong with you people? This is Dick Cheney, he's NEVER been open with the press, why is anyone acting suprised? It's standard operating procedure with him to not tell the press a damn thing.<
>
<
>
Did any pellets even
eak the skin? Marauder Harabakc Goat<i></i>

_________________
Marauder Harabakc Goat

Quote:Did any pellets even
eak the skin?<
>
<
>
Do you watch the news? The guy had a heart attack because one of the pellets migrated to his heart.<
>
<
>
Man shoots fellow hunter. <
>
Medical aid immediately given, man is taken to hospital (this is done right, no criticism here)<
>
Police not notified for 14 hours (this is not done right)<
>
Man does not have permit to hunt (oops!)<
>
Hunting injury is serious (requiring hospitalization and now the injury has become very serious with the heart attack).<
>
<
>
Now, I personally think this was an accident, because DUH. He's not going to intentionally shoot someone in the face. However, accidents still can have criminal liability. He didn't have a hunting license, and while the other person may bear some responsibility (in that he didn't do everything as he should have), Cheney pulled the trigger and hit him. The guy didn't literally JUMP into the shot or anything.<
>
<
>
If this were a normal case, do you think criminal charges would be filed against 'Joe Average' under the same circumstances? And what if the guy dies? <
>
<
>
I'm not singling Cheney out for this, the special treatment (and I think it is special treatment) would be given to other people as well, if they were rich and/or famous. I would be surprised if anyone on his end were specifically pulling strings or anything. In other words, I don't suspect (and wouldn't without evidence) that it's any malfeasence on his part that it's not being treated as it would normally. I think that's on the other end.<
>
<
>
But given that he is an elected official in the 2nd highest office in this land, even the appearance of anything improper is an issue. So it's going to be an "issue".<
>
<
>
Though for me not nearly as an important an issue as illegal wiretaps, the entire CIA outing thing, the Patriot Act, or many other things...but still an issue.<
>
<
>
The rest I just find either funny (in a dark humor type of way) or just fucked up. <
>
Keep my head from exploding?...<b>You can help!</b><i></i>

I had my window open for probaby an hour before I posted, the last post I saw was on the previous page.<
>
<
>
And no, I haven't watched the news tonight. Today is the first time I've seen anything about the pellets even
eaking his skin.<
>
<
>
And yes, he did have a hunting license, what he didn't have was a new tag the implimented back in October that Game Wardens have been giving warnings for.<
>
<
>
Quote:If this were a normal case, do you think criminal charges would be filed against 'Joe Average' under the same circumstances?<
>
<
>
No, I don't. Marauder Harabakc Goat<i></i>

_________________
Marauder Harabakc Goat

<
>
<
>
President; sends young Americans off to War to <
>
do what needs to get done and protect his daddys<
>
Oil investments. Young Americans die a few thousand <
>
times and everyone is like...yeah,..well ok, gosh why<
>
are we at war again? Oh well, they must know what <
>
they are doing.....the rest of the world is like "coughbullshitcough"<
>
<
>
Vice Pres;war vet from the last economic police <
>
action, accidentaly shoots a hunter in full camo<
>
and people are pooping themselves in plain sight,<
>
about it.<
>
<
>
<
>
<i></i>

Quote:If this were a normal case, do you think criminal charges would be filed against 'Joe Average' under the same circumstances?<
>
<
>
No, I don't.<
>
Now, if the old man dies...<
>
<
>
Hunting accident
ings a manslaughter charge<
>
Quote:An undocumented Mexican immigrant was shot and killed Sunday evening in an apparent hunting accident on a Webb County ranch owned by the family of former U.S. diplomat John G. Hurd. <
>
<
>
“The illegals were crouching out in the
ush,� Webb County Sheriff Juan Garza said. “They said they mistook this guy for a hog.� <
>
<
>
The victim, Jesus Barrera Vasquez, from Guanajuato, Mexico, was struck in the abdomen by a single slug from a .44 magnum rifle, and he died at the scene, Garza said. <
>
<
>
The shooter, Juan Garza Mendoza, 34, an employee of the ranch, was charged today with manslaughter, a second-degree felony punishable by up to 20 years in prison. <
>
<
>
The shooting occurred on the Hurd-Villegas Ranch on Texas 359, about 16 miles east of Laredo. The ranch has been in the Hurd family since the 1920s, said John R. Hurd, whose father was the U.S. ambassador to South Africa in the 1970s. <
>
<
>
“It's a tragedy for the man whose life was lost and for Juan Mendoza and his family. It will be with them for the rest of their lives,� Hurd said. “Knowing Juan Mendoza, I do not believe he would fire deliberately at a human being.� <
>
<
>
Hurd said that Mendoza, who apparently hit Barrera Vasquez while shooting at a feral hog, immediately contacted authorities after the shooting. <
>
<
>
Garza, the sheriff, said interviews with three of the victim's Mexican traveling companions and the others in the ranch hunting party led him to rule out anything but an accidental shooting. “They mistakenly shot a human being,� he said. “It's reckless. It's inexcusable.�<
>
<i></i>

_________________
Celtic Diva's Blue Oasis

Quote:And no, I haven't watched the news tonight. Today is the first time I've seen anything about the pellets even
eaking his skin.I'm not an expert hunter or anything, but is it normal for birdshot to just bounce the fuck off of someone's *face* when shot at point blank range? - joxur<i></i>

Quote:accidentaly shoots a hunter in full camo They were all wearing those
ight orange hunting vests.<
>
<
>
And how does someone hear "man shot in face with shotgun" and then assume it didn't puncture his skin?? <i></i>

Quote:I'm not an expert hunter or anything, but is it normal for birdshot to just bounce the fuck off of someone's *face* when shot at point blank range? <
>
Maybe they aren't a fucking hunter and don't fucking know what fucking birdshot fucking does.<
>
<
>
-arkayn <i></i>

Haha, calm down Ark....it's going to be alright man. <i></i>

Lmao. It was sarcasm directed at certain people whothink that by saying fuck in their post every other word it makes them Billy Badass. <i></i>

I only said it once 'ol boy. It's so fun pushing your buttons. - joxur<i></i>

Because I am just talking about this thread too...<
>
<
>
Rock on, Billy.<
>
<
>
- arkayn <i></i>

After Cheney blasted a buddy in the face, I'm starting to like him, and I know I shouldn't.<
>
<
>
It's a shame they weren't hunting with hand grenades. <i></i>

Quote:I'm not an expert hunter or anything, but is it normal for birdshot to just bounce the fuck off of someone's *face* when shot at point blank range?<
>
<
>
I am and I would hardly call 30-40 yards "Point Blank". <
>
<
>
Shot
eaking the skin all depends on the size shot they are using. For Quail I would immagine they were using 7, 71/2 or 8 shot since it holds a patern well, travels fast and is excelent for small birds like Quail.<
>
<
>
I can see how porbably most of the shot did bounce off him at 30 yards hece him only getting shot in the face and chest. He probably had his jacket unzipped and it was really the only exposed portion of his body besides his face.<
>
<
>
<
>
<i></i>

_________________

_____
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
_____
VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

Quote:It's a shame they weren't hunting with hand grenades.<
>
You don't use hand grenades to hunt!<
>
<
>
You use them to fish! <i></i>

_________________
Celtic Diva's Blue Oasis

CNN.com had a summation of some of the jokes going around about the shooting. Some of these are hilarious:<
>
(sorry if this is a re-post, didn't bother surveying this thread)<
>
<
>
Quote:<
>
"Late Show with David Letterman," CBS<
>
<
>
"Good news, ladies and gentlemen, we have finally located weapons of mass destruction: It's Dick Cheney."<
>
<
>
<
>
"But here is the sad part -- before the trip Donald Rumsfeld had denied the guy's request for body armor."<
>
<
>
<
>
"We can't get Bin Laden, but we nailed a 78-year-old attorney."<
>
<
>
<
>
"The guy who got gunned down, he is a Republican lawyer and a big Republican donor and fortunately the buck shot was deflected by wads of laundered cash. So he's fine. He took a little in the wallet."<
>
<
>
"The Tonight Show with Jay Leno," NBC<
>
<
>
"Although it is beautiful here in California, the weather back East has been atrocious. There was so much snow in Washington, D.C., Dick Cheney accidentally shot a fat guy thinking it was a polar bear."<
>
<
>
<
>
"That's the big story over the weekend. ... Dick Cheney accidentally shot a fellow hunter, a 78-year-old lawyer. In fact, when people found out he shot a lawyer, his popularity is now at 92 percent."<
>
<
>
<
>
"I think Cheney is starting to lose it. After he shot the guy he screamed, 'Anyone else want to call domestic wire tapping illegal?' "<
>
<
>
<
>
"Dick Cheney is capitalizing on this for Valentine's Day. It's the new Dick Cheney cologne. It's called Duck!"<
>
<
>
"The Daily Show with Jon Stewart," Comedy Central<
>
<
>
The show's segment titles included "Cheney's Got a Gun," "No. 2 With a Bullet" and "Dead-Eye Dick."<
>
<
>
<
>
"Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot a man during a quail hunt ... making 78-year-old Harry Whittington the first person shot by a sitting veep since Alexander Hamilton. Hamilton, of course, (was) shot in a duel with Aaron Burr over issues of honor, integrity and political maneuvering. Whittington? Mistaken for a bird."<
>
<
>
<
>
"Now, this story certainly has its humorous aspects. ... But it also raises a serious issue, one which I feel very strongly about. ... Moms, dads, if you're watching right now, I can't emphasize this enough: Do not let your kids go on hunting trips with the vice president. I don't care what kind of lucrative contracts they're trying to land, or energy regulations they're trying to get lifted -- it's just not worth it."<
>
<
>
"Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson," CBS<
>
<
>
"He is a lawyer and he got shot in the face. But he's a lawyer, he can use his other face. He'll be all right."<
>
<
>
<
>
"You can understand why this lawyer fellow let his guard down, because if you're out hunting with a politician, you think, 'If I'm going to get it, it's going to be in the back.' "<
>
<
>
<
>
"The big scandal apparently is that they didn't release the news for 18 hours. I don't think that's a scandal at all. I'm quite pleased about that. Finally there's a secret the vice president's office can keep."<
>
<
>
<
>
"Apparently the reason they didn't release the information right away is they said we had to get the facts right. That's never stopped them in the past."<
>
<i></i>

Link (And I even used CNN)<
>
The victim speaks!<
>
Quote:"We all assume certain risks in whatever we do," Whittington said. "Whatever activities we pursue and regardless of how experienced, careful and dedicated we are, accidents do and will happen."<
>
Quote:"My family and I are deeply sorry for all that Vice President Cheney and his family have had to go through this week," Whittington said.<
>
The only person who matters here, or at least the only one who's opinion SHOULD matter, has spoken. <i></i>

It's interesting that you have the wounded guy lying in bed having a heart attack is expressing his deepest sympathies for Cheney and EVERYTHING he has been through. Clearly if more shooting victims would stand up for the rights of people who pull the trigger, we would all be better off. <i></i>

Quote:A lot of preserve hunting is like that too. The guides know where everything herds and lives so they walk right up on them. Some even put the hunters on bench rests and chase the animals across a field.<
>
<
>
I call bullshit. ABSOLUTE bullshit. Please make comments you might know something about rather than the propaganda PETA feeds you.<
>
<
>
Most "preserve" hunts are unfenced natural habitats where the animals are jsut as wary of humans as any other place. <
>
<
>
The fenced in places you MIGHT be talking about generally encompass numerous square miles and yes the animals are jsut as wary as anywhere else. <
>
<
>
This is what I REALLY thought funny...<
>
<
>
Quote:Some even put the hunters on bench rests and chase the animals across a field.<
>
<
>
Ever try and shoot at a deer bounding across an open fied doing mach 10 with its hair on fire? Thought not. Maybe 1 in 500 hunters can make the shot if it's less than 50 yards away probably 1 in 2000 if its further. <i></i>

_________________

_____
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
_____
VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

Maybe they kneecap them first? <
>
Keep my head from exploding?...<b>You can help!</b><i></i>

Quote:It's interesting that you have the wounded guy lying in bed having a heart attack is expressing his deepest sympathies for Cheney and EVERYTHING he has been through. Clearly if more shooting victims would stand up for the rights of people who pull the trigger, we would all be better off.<
>
<
>
Maybe because he KNOWS it was an accident? I guess you want Cheney tried for attempted Murder right? <i></i>

_________________

_____
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
_____
VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

OMG anyone watching Jimmy Kimmel right now. That bit about the guy appologizing to Cheney was CLASSIC! <i></i>

_________________

_____
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
_____
VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

Quote:Maybe because he KNOWS it was an accident? I guess you want Cheney tried for attempted Murder right? <
>
<
>
No, but it falls in line with him desperately trying to take the fall for this accident. He's still saying that it was his fault for Cheney shooting him. Like I said before, every hunter has the responsibility to KNOW where their fellow hunters are at at all times. <i></i>

Of course, some of us are conveniently forgetting that Cheney has already claimed responsibility as the man that pulled the trigger. Hello, non-issue. <i></i>

Which, of course, doesn't matter when we're talking about people that are still saying it's all Whittington's fault. <i></i>

Quote:The only person who matters here, or at least the only one who's opinion SHOULD matter, has spoken.<
>
<
>
I agree completely.<
>
<
>
Now let's talk about who's opinion "should" have mattered during the Monica Lewinski scandal Arch Lich of Lanys (Retired)<
>
<i></i>

Oh God.<
>
<
>
/me puts on his "It was the perjury, stupid." button.<
>
<
>
<i></i>

Quote:Now let's talk about who's opinion "should" have mattered during the Monica Lewinski scandal<
>
Outside of the politician castrated over it? Monica Lewinsky, and if I recall correctly, she wasn't quite so sympathetic. <i></i>