The fact you can explain the reasoning behind your argument doesn't make it true. Using the same example I can show you point by point and citing evidence why hot climates=poor people, and because of "common sense" I'm sure I'd get some people going "hmm yeah, it's true africans are poor, and it's also true that when it's really hot out I don't want to work, that makes sense" but unfortunately my hypothesis would still be completely wrong. Your flaw isn't in reasoning or common sense, it's in fact. You want to show a halfway reputable source that supports your theory I'll listen, otherwise I'm going to assume you didn't manage to unearth the source of one of the biggest problems on earth today by yourself. <i></i>

Is that directed at me? <i></i>

http://www.usda.gov/cnpp/WP%20Ob...rticle.htm<
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Lets see rising obesity in children.. sedentary lifestyle check.. larger portion sizes, check, more food availiable by because of freezing techniques check. Oh nos, Mono is talking that crazy talk.
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Quote:The incidence of diabetes linked to obesity has jumped significantly in U.S. children in the past few decades, according to new findings presented last week at a U.S. Department of Agriculture meeting on the causes and prevention of obesity in kids.<
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X-Box has been out, what, 4 years (give or take). This is talking about "a few decades".<
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Quote:Oh nos, Mono is talking that crazy talk.<
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No, you're just assuming "a few decades" means the video game rise. This coming from someone who spent less time with family/friends/outdoor activities and decided to spend a portion of their life playing EQ too. <i></i>

Ark: I think it's a combination of parents and kids. If kids didn't have the options they do today, parents wouldn't have to work as hard to monitor them. <
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I was pretty much a latchkey kid. My mom was divorced and worked long hours as a nurse. I didn't have a stay at home mom to monitor my nutritional intake and exercise regimen. Atari was ok, but not enough to hold my interest. I could watch cartoons till 5pm, or until noon on saturdays. <
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When I got home, I'd go out and play with friends in the neighborhood. We would build forts, throw ball, or climb trees. <
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I ate fast food as a kid, but I didn't have to really start watching my weight and fighting it until I got into late highschool/college and became more sedentary due to studying. <
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Now kids can watch 24 hr cartoons, they have xbox, nintendo, computers etc. On top of that, they are often discouraged from playing outside in the neighborhood because "that's dangerous". Moving to Colorado was a bit of a wonder, because there are tons of parks here, and people actually use them
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I know the attitude of kids adds to obesity these days, but I also know parents have at least a portion of control here.<
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I am not obese, and it's a safe bet to say I will not marry anyone obese. When I have kids, no one will be able to use the "genes" excuse with me. If my kid is fat, it's because I let him/her sit on their ass. I would take responsibility. JFC parents, get your fatass kids off their asses and make them do something. Cheetos and Madden don't cut it.<
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For you PC fucks, YES, there is a VERY SMALL portion of people who can't do anything about it, but with the % of the people obese (And that goes for these boards here too), have all the cards in their deck and can make changes themselves. Get off your fucking asses, stop eating junk food, and stop making other health-conscious countries laugh at us. <i></i>

The NES(Nintendo) came out in the late 80's in the US. Infact, I had one when I was a kid. Then SNES(Nintendo) came out around 93 I think I can't remember exactly and don't feel like looking right now, I also had one of those.<
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Those things were around, so was TV, the fact of the matter was our parents wouldn't let us sit there and eat all day long. Yes, I did infact spend a lot of time outside with my friends but frankly I didn't eat all the time either.<
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The fact of the matter is if you live off of fast food and sit on your ass all the time then you're going to get fat, period. During the summer I bet I probably intake 3500 calories per day, easily. It takes every bit of it to keep me from dropping, that and a gallon of water a day. I don't even live in a place that gets all that hot(if we hit 90 on a hot summer day it's rare) but I do work outside.<
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Quote:there is a VERY SMALL portion of people who can't do anything about it<
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I don't and won't buy that.<
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I went to school with a guy that weighed easily 100 pounds in First grade. He was over 300 by the time we went into high school, he got his shit straight and now he's in better shape and weighs less then I do. I'm sure he has to work harder than some people but if he could get into shape compared to what he used to be(we were worried about him having a heart attack in the 4th grade) then anyone can. Marauder Harabakc Goat<i></i>

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yay another single anecdotal story to prove a huge generalization of millions of people!<
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You are teh smart.<
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You rpove my point, but as much as I hate to agree with it, there are a miniscule portion of the world who can blame a pituatary gland problem on obesity. For the other 99.9998% of the country: "GET OFF YOUR FAT FUCKING ASS". <i></i>

I grew up with this kid, if there ever was a "can't help it" person, he was it. He didn't eat all that much, and he was fat since I met him. I went to elementary and high school with him, I ate lunch with him everyday, I usually ate more than he did. He was just as active as any of us during PE/recess. His entire family is "large."<
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But yet somehow this "I can't help I'm a fat ass, it's genetics" is now thinner than I am. I just don't buy that argument. Marauder Harabakc Goat<i></i>

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Quote:During the summer I bet I probably intake 3500 calories per day, easily. It takes every bit of it to keep me from dropping, that and a gallon of water a day. I don't even live in a place that gets all that hot(if we hit 90 on a hot summer day it's rare) but I do work outside.<
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So you are saying you don't develop weight gain because despite eating vast quantities of high caloric food, you don't have a sedentary job?
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I can eat like that because I don't sit on my ass all day, infact I need to eat like that to keep my energy up, otherwise I starve.<
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Let some desk jockey try to do that, watch the fat pile on. Marauder Harabakc Goat<i></i>

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gwiber wrote:Quote:COrrect me if I am wrong(and I often am), Car insurance. Health insurance all of them increase with alarming regularity when you put them to use.No, that is not correct in regards to health insurance. Let's say you worked with me and had the same health care company. You have 1 child and I have 17 children, and I go to the doctor twice a week. We pay the same premiums. I might have to chock out $10 co-pays, but that's it.<
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So, you're correct in car insurance, but not health insurance. And that's because health insurance is managed in group terms for the majority of insured Americans.<
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Quote:When you make a claim against the insurance company, and they have to pay out, they deem you a greater rsik for whatever, and generally after a few claims they raise the premium of your insurance, therefore increasing the cost there-of. THAT is basic simple economics... Again, that is not correct for most insured Americans. And again, that's why it's not so simple as to say "fat people cost us!"<
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Quote:As for the Elderly insurance costs going DOWN, you kinda made your own argument I suppose.Snipping the rest of your quotesince you never really disagreed with anything I wrote. Funding health care for the 60+ crowd is going to be a huge problem over the next 30 years. <i></i>

Brambler wrote:Quote:And how much does it cost the health care system for people who live to be 95, but from age 65-95 are constantly going to the doctor, and need about 10 different perscriptions at all times?Thanks Brambler. I'm glad I'm not the only one able to understand it, heh.<
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Mandalorianaz wrote:Quote:Thank you Gwiber for explaining the simplicity of the matter to Orme, the dumb fuck. Um... he was wrong in writing health insurance goes up with claims and he agreed with what I wrote about the elderly.<
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Can you at least post some sort of logic before whipping out the "you're a dumb fuck" line? <
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Quote:In reference to Monocot saying health insurance doesn't increase with claims, you must be dillusional. Why do you think healthcare has been skyrocketing?Premiums you nimwit. She means insurance PREMIUMS. See, when you get out of 9th grade, you might have to pay them.<
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Quote:It's very simple, unless you're of Orme's intelligence. Keep trying. I hate to tell you this, but if you want to "win a flame" on me, you're either going to have to:<
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1) Post a logical response to my post that disproves something I've said<
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2) Rant like a lunatic AND use something semi-original. Up to this point, writing "fuck" and calling me dumb isn't cutting it.<
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After all Arkyran's ranting about how ed he is with FAT AMERICA, I know everyone is still dying to see the picture of him where he claims to be "hot".<
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Heh. <
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I'm guessing he's about 6'3" 205, 6% bodyfat, and bench presses 300.<
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Is that close? <i></i>

Group insurance is based on the group's claims experience and the risks associated with the ages of the group, as well as the group size. The larger the group, the easier it is to spread out the cost of the more expensive outliers.<
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The issue between the pricing structures of a personal car insurance policy and a group health insurance policy has very little to do with the type of insurance (auto versus medical). It has everything to do with the type of policy (individual versus group). <i></i>

Why not a national health-insurance program people could buy into, if group health-care is better with a larger population size? <i></i>

Orme, you big stupid!!<
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The bottom line is technology gets better and health care gets better, unless you are in the minority that thinks you can cure everything with herbs from some snake oil vendor. Better technology and rising salaries make for higher premiums over time. The population in the US is getting older and as they start getting sick just because they are old the costs we all will share (assuming you pay for health care) will go up more. <
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Trying to say a person has heart issues just becaue they are fat or saying they have lung cancer because they smoke is stupid at best. It increases their chances. You can die of a heart attack even though you are a professional basketball player and you can get lung cancer even though you live in a smoke free environment. I am pretty sure health care does cost more for smokers in at least some areas. <
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I don't smoke. I am considered overweight. I have a very normal looking frame for a man. Most people say they can't tell I am 6'4" tall from a distance because I am proportioned well. When I raced mountain bikes every weekend (and was pretty damn good) I weighed about 211. During that time I had no upper body at all (duh). Accoding to the weight/height charts I was overweight then also. For men of my height with a large frame according to whoever makes these idiotic things up I should be 181-207 pounds. Now that I work out my upper body as well I weigh about 240. I am maybe 10-15 pounds overweight.<
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According to the charts I am considered very overweight and almost obese. I know that body fat index is more important for determining obesity. Do you think health insurance carriers would go through that trouble if they started using charts to determine insurance premiums?<
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BTW Orme is completely correct about costs. <i></i>

Quote:Why not a national health-insurance program people could buy into, if group health-care is better with a larger population size?Because that would be *gasp* socialism. You aren't a pinko, are you? <i></i>

but jay, that would never happen... so long as health care is in the hands of the few who make a shit load of money from it, then you can rest assured that they would make damn sure that congress would not pass such a bill - it may be better for the people, but would destroy the profits of a VERY good money earner for the rich.<
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(Yes - it is cynical, but it is also true) <i></i>

There are a lot of people out there who hate fat people simply because they are fat. They don't care about the health problems associated with obesity, they don't care about people who have genetic predispositions - they hate fat people, they don't want to look at them, they don't want to interact with them (unless it is to humiliate or make fun of them). To them, people who are overweight are subhuman, flaws of the system that really should be weeded out. They feel that if we can't just get rid of them all, we should make their lives as miserable as possible, because - well they are fat. There people also see anorexia and bulimia as good things - who cares what people do to their bodies as long as they don't get fat?<
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You may think I'm being dramatic or whatever, I don't care. But those people are out there. <i></i>

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"...so long as health care is in the hands of the few who make a shit load of money from it, then you can rest assured that they would make damn sure that congress would not pass such a bill ..."<
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You hit the nail on the head there, Alad. It's especially hypocritical since Congressmen receive some of the best health care benefits of anyone in this country, at no cost.<
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The whole point is whether the individual or the government has the right to decide matters affecting only the individual or private enterprise.<
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I smoke. I do not expect to be able to smoke in any venue which is part of, or supported by, public agencies. I do expect to be able to choose whether to spend my money in private enterprises which allow me to decide whether to smoke or not. Some places I wouldn't expect to smoke, despite them being private businesses. Most stores fall in that category for me. The residue from smoke has a negative impact on merchandise. <
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I've somewhat envied people who had no problems gaining weight, as I've had to struggle to maintain a reasonable, healthy weight since a severe bout with mono as a 9 yr. old. I've eaten enough for 2-3 people most of my adult life and still had problems keeping weight on. <
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At different points in my life I've used alcoholic, in moderation and excessively. The last 10 years I've abstained totally. That's a decision I make for myself, and I don't presume to make that decision for anyone else regardless of how much I disapprove of the alcohol industry in our country.<
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IMO, most people in our country are extremely narcissistic and entirely too concerned about superficial, external appearances. I think much of that attitude is deliberately fostered and encouraged by commercial interests in order to sell more crap to the public. <
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I've known people who had an extremely difficult time managing their weight, despite limited caloric intake and adequate physical activity. I've known people who were basically lazy slobs who wouldn't stop stuffing their face.<
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I've been the object of ridicule and derision because I wouldn't hesitate to date women who were heavy. I never let other people's attitude prevent me from spending time with a wonderful person who happened to be overweight. Being very slim myself, I don't make weight an issue. There are too many important things to focus on.<
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The day the government assumes the right to dictate my lifestyle in minute detail will be the day I find another country to live in. <i></i>

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Quote:Why not a national health-insurance program people could buy into, if group health-care is better with a larger population size? Because health insurance is the problem, not the fix.<
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GASP...<
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Did I say health insurance is bad? <
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Yep. One of the reason health care costs are soaring is because people abuse anything that's free. While a lot of people claim to hate HMOs, the positive aspect is that they try to manage costs.<
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For example, at my last job I worked for an insurance company. One system I wrote tracked emergency room visits for Asthma and linked it to care management. We would call these people and PAY THEM IN WALMART GIFT CERTIFICATES to take their medication. If they were paying for the ER visit, they'd probably care more about the incredible cost of going there.<
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I'm not saying health insurance is evil. But, the current structure just isn't quite right. Making national coverage would only make the problem worse.<
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In my opinion, the correct course of action is a hy
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I skipped most of this shit, if it goes to far il steal all of your assholes taco bell and eat rat burgers like demolition man.<
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but Wiley coyote- Do not ever compare my holy ganja to that dirty
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thanks Tahs<
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