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 Post subject: Thought Police
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:22 PM 
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I'll write more in detail on this later, but I'm surprised we haven't had a thread on it. I'm talking about the guy that's been in the news, the one who states he's a pedophile, had a website with pictures of kids, and information on how best to stalk them...all legal. And how people have (IMO understandably mind you) gone utterly batshit over this and there's been restraining orders and such.

I've found myself really of two minds on it. Legally it's interesting in that being a pedophile isn't against the law. In fact one could theorize that if pedophilia is some type of disorder we can't really treat or cure, those who have it and do not ACT UPON it are to be...well I don't know if 'commended' is the right term. Of course this guy went further with his website and taking of pictures. But it didn't violate the law. Either we need laws regarding such things (I'm not a parent but I'd be upset if people were taking pictures of my kids without permission...let alone putting them online) or we don't. I say the latter because again it can be argued that as no harm is being done, it doesn't need legislation.

Legally going after this guy...well they don't have much ground to stand on.

However the other part of me really despises this type of shit. If I had a child and saw that fucker lurking around them, I'd probably go to jail. I'm heavily biased by my emotional response to such stuff. Just putting that out front because it's an area I'm close minded about. In terms of how I feel about it.

But I find myself wondering...what's best? Who'd seek help for such problems if they're made pariahs of society, and have people who'd happily throw rocks at them from an angry mob? There's no real 'help' currently to speak of, but I find myself wondering if people like that might not reach a point where they figure fuck it...if they're going to pay such harsh penalties while struggling with their demons...why continue struggling? They'll be just as hated, have just as many problems...and get to indulge in what they desire.

I think it's such an emotionally fraught issue that as a society we're ill equipped to deal with it. No one really wants to live next to, or near a known pedophile. No one wants them in their neighborhood. It's a group of people who even after they've served their prison time...we really have no problem continuing to harass them. We don't picket murderers (generally mind you) when they do their time and return to society. We may not want ex-cons around us, but we don't require a database registration, notification and we don't react on the level we do with pedophiles.

I don't really have any answers here. My feelings in this area are rather draconian. Even in cases of fictional work, or 'virtual' child porn, I think it should be illegal. I think it's something so awful that such people forfeit their right to live among people. That being said, for someone who has no control over how they feel, who does nothing to encourage it (no pictures, no 'how to stalk kids' guide :P) and who would shoot themselves in the head before they harmed a child...that I could deal with. I'd find it disturbing and sad...but I'm sure for some if not all it's something beyond their control (having those desires). What they do about it is within their control. And I think any overt acts furthering it, should be criminalized.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:58 PM 
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This probably isn't contributing much, but "The Woodsman" is one of my favorite movies-- the humanization of that child molester (Kevin Bacon) in that movie I thought was a point worth making in that film.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:43 PM 
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It is a conundrum. What he is doing is reprehensible, but I don't like the precedent that a conviction of this man would set.

What other things might be considered unwanted deviancy by society when no harm was done? What if someone owns the book Lolita, or Mien Kampf? Maybe people that participate in KKK parades should be arrested. Perhaps someone likes taking pictures of trains, they could be a terrorist. Doesn't matter what they say, they're just hiding their real motivation.

The odd thing here is that he admits his pedophilia. He didn't have to, but yet he did, why? A cry for help, attention, both? Maybe he thinks he's on some kind of crusade for pedophile rights. O_o


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:15 PM 
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Haha, pedophile rights.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:15 PM 
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Until they commit a crime, pedophiles are just law abiding citizens like you or me.

Granted, this guy belongs on every possible watch list, but other than that... no.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:00 AM 
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Yeah, when the pedos looks at my kids sexually it makes me wanna kill them.
Yeah, I know when the fags look at me sexually it makes me wanna kill them.

People can't control their sexual inclinations. If you like goats, you like goats.

That being said, I don't think this guy is for real. I did some digging awhile back when the story "broke" - this guy's website was more like a way to "prove a point" and "make a statement" rather than a "real pedo". I think the guy is a poser pedo lol =/

It does bring up some intriguing questions though - despite this guy looking for his 15min.

People are looking at your kids sexually wherever you are - people are doing the same to you - Would the outrage be any different if he were trying to find places to take pictures of 16year old girls - 16 year old boys - Unwitting Senior citizens?

Another interesting point is:
Quote:
Even in cases of fictional work, or 'virtual' child porn, I think it should be illegal.


I absolutely disagree with this. My first thought was "yeah, just what we need, another fucking law". My second thought was "Banning of creative works? Ick".

I have watched a lot of porn - That doesn't make me wanna rape women. I think a person is predisposed to acts of rape with or without the porn. I also would not make the claim that beating off to drawings of kids is going to help curb the urge to snag one - I think that sort of thing is on a whole different level.

I think you could find a correlation between pornography and violent crimes - but I think you could find a correlation between pornography and beer - correlation does not imply causation.

And finally, even if there is no fictional work being created you get what I like to call "the Sunday newspaper bra ad" phenomenon (using what is available to visually stimulate) - If a guy isn't rubbing one off to a pencil sketch of Hermione in a gangbang, he will be reading the classics an slapping the noodle to that - or watching Hound Dog, wearing out the pause/rewind button.

Like I said though - I think this guy is just trying to get a rise out of people - although I do feel he is genuinely in danger now - even if it is of his own dumbass volition. I also think that the police should be held accountable for putting out his information as though he was a wanted man, though he has broken no law. I think that was grossly irresponsible on the part of those who are here to "protect and serve".


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:28 AM 
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Until they commit a crime, alcholics with a driver's lisence are just law abiding citizens like you or me.
Until they commit a crime, psychopaths with an axe to grind...and an axe, are just law abiding citizens like you or me.
Until they commit a crime, rapists are just law abiding citizens like you or me.

Here's a guy who is basically saying "This is my disorder, but I can skirt the law." Bullshit. The law is flawed, and there absolutely *needs* to be a precedent set. Sal, all the things you list that could result from a conviction of this piece of shit didn't happen since 1990, when "stalking" became a criminal offense. The difference between this pile of refuse (i refuse to call him guy, man, person...since those are references to human beings, which this ass is not), and a stalker is the maturity of the people he's stalking. The kids he is lusting after aren't mature enough to be offended, feel threatened, know the difference between society's morality and his lack of said morals. If this guy were doing the same thing with 24 year old college students, they'd have something to say about it, and he'd probably be in jail already.

Its sad that you can be investigated and/or arrested for just saying you want to kill the prez, but this ass can walk around and take pics of kids and post them on a website for other pedophiles to look at and not even have to worry.

There shouldn't be a parent on the planet who doesn't want this guy locked up. Anyone who is glad there isn't a law that precludes this asshat from doing what he's doing should just imagine a picture of their child or little brother or sister on his website, with 5 stars and a description of what he'd *like* to do to them.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:52 AM 
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It seems inevitable that some legislation, local - state - or federal, will eventually be passed. In our state, Kentucky, there is already legislation passed that makes it a crime to possess the necessary components to manufacture methamphetamine. A defendant does not have to be in the process, or even intend to use the various components, to make meth - simple possession of a sufficient number of specific items will result in charges of intent to manufacture. Even possession of a substantial amount of marijuana can result in intent to distribute in many places. It seems reasonable to think the same mentality will eventually result in comparable legislation being passed on some level.

Like Tarot, I'm torn between my rational, logical opinion and my emotional response. Emotionally, I have no qualms about pre-emptive action where pedophiles are concerned. Intellectually, I can't support that position.

How long would it take before precedents such as the intent laws focused on meth are duplicated in other areas? How long before suspicion of intent, not active conspiracy, is enough to result in criminal charges for almost anything?

Don't many localities have laws regarding solicitation that would cover posting a "How-to" guide for pedophiles?


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:11 AM 
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Quote:
Even in cases of fictional work, or 'virtual' child porn, I think it should be illegal.
I completely understand the gut reaction to pedophelia, but what's your basis for wanting to make child porn in a fictional setting illegal other than it making you emotionally unstable?

Quote:
Here's a guy who is basically saying "This is my disorder, but I can skirt the law." Bullshit. The law is flawed, and there absolutely *needs* to be a precedent set.
He isn't skirting the law, nor is he breaking any stalking laws. The only thing he is doing is going to a location where children congregate and occasionally taking photos, not too disimiliar to amateur photographers. You would have a point if he was following these children, or in any way harrassing these kids, but he isn't from everything that I've read.

If anything, the only people that need to be disciplined in this matter are the police officers who asked to take his picture in order to rule him out in the event that a child is harmed and then circulated the image along with a warning for people to call the cops if they see him and the judge who issued a restraining order based solely on his personal feelings.

I find it disheartening that people would advocate creating legislation for something that does absolutely no harm based on nothing more than it making you uncomfortable or angry.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:24 AM 
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Is he suing anybody - like the local police? Where is the ACLU? /snicker.

Seriously though, I would be shopping for lawyers if I were him. - That dude isn't even going to be able to go to the grocery store without getting fucked with.

HOWEVER, I did see this guy on the news, I think he might have blown his payday there - how can you be pissed at the cops when you go on the 6o'clock news saying you are a pedophile?
That, along with the content of his site both make me think this guy is just looking for his 15 - what a fucked up way to be famous.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:53 AM 
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Devyn wrote:
Quote:
I find it disheartening that people would advocate creating legislation for something that does absolutely no harm based on nothing more than it making you uncomfortable or angry.


This is a VERY wise statement.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:22 AM 

Tarot wrote:
. . . and information on how best to stalk them...all legal.


That may not be. Depends on the jurisdiction, but encouraging someone to commit a crime . . . that gets close. Otherwise, urge and thoughts are neither illegal nor pathologic--it is the actions that result from them.

Child pornography is illegal, because it necessarily requires the exploitation of a child.

"Virtual" or "faux?" I do not know. As disgusting as it is, should it be illegal?

Quote:
If I had a child and saw that fucker lurking around them, I'd probably go to jail. I'm heavily biased by my emotional response to such stuff. Just putting that out front because it's an area I'm close minded about. In terms of how I feel about it.


As above--the urge to beat the living crap out of the colostomy stain is neither illegal nor pathological. Granted, I would probably prosecute the person who turned left without signaling with more vigor and due diligence that you kicking the crap out of such or, say, a bunch of biker beating Fred Phelps into an ethical and moral discussion on treating the vegetative at a funeral.

I mean, we have to have our priorities . . . limited legal resources. . . .

sijandistraightarrow wrote:
A defendant does not have to be in the process, or even intend to use the various components, to make meth - simple possession of a sufficient number of specific items will result in charges of intent to manufacture.


There is precedence--the ol' "carrying house breaking tools by night."

Quote:
Even possession of a substantial amount of marijuana can result in intent to distribute in many places.


On ANOTHER BOARD, a defense attorney discussed that issue. It is often a tactic to "squeeze" the accused and/or try to get a "bigger arrest":

RCC wrote:
I had a good one where a cop busted someone with prescription medicine she didn't have a prescription for. They just made up the "intent to deliver" part and tried to lean on her.

She, unlike many people, called me first. I explained to her that the antibiotics she had weren't exactly on the controlled substances schedules, and to tell the cops to piss up a rope...

The officer didn't show for the prelim and the case went away.

I will say that the most cops here seem to do is to just call possession "possesion with intent to deliver", which makes it a felony. Somewhere I have a transcript of a preliminary hearing where a cop claimed that 1/8th of an ounce of pot was "not consistent with personal consumption" and thus evidence of intent to deliver...


Anyways . . . what was the topic about? Oh yeah . . .

Devyn wrote:
I find it disheartening that people would advocate creating legislation for something that does absolutely no harm based on nothing more than it making you uncomfortable or angry.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:33 AM 
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I should clarify what I specifically meant by 'fictional' child porn (and virtual).

Fictional in terms of someone writing a story (such as The Woodsman [?] which I haven't seen but someone mentioned) isn't what I'm talking about. I was thinking specifically of a case where a man wrote quite a bit about molesting children under his care...then claimed it was 'fictional' works. I would also include pornography under this as well. If someone could demonstrate that it did not result in any harm (which I don't think is possible, and I'm not being an ass and saying 'okay ONE person...you lose' I'm talking about information we just don't have...regarding people engaging in shit like this...then escalating) if we *could* say it wasn't harmful then it would fall under the many things I dislike and find repulsive...but I wouldn't care.

Virtual child porn is relatively new (though drawings and other art aren't) but various computer programs can render extremely lifelike images of child pornography. In 'virtual' child porn no child is used or harmed in the production of the pornography. My two concerns are again, harm (through escalation) and determination (is it virtual...or not.)

Obviously my positions are the realm of my opinion, which as I stated is heavily emotionally biased. But I wanted to clarify what I meant.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:01 AM 
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Proving an escalation would be darn near impossible and I don't agree with banning it until it is proven otherwise. I don't think either conclusion could be definitively proven.

Both things would be very hard to prove. Like I said.. I am sure that the vast majority of rapist, murderers and shitheads have watched or watch some sort of pornographic material. I am also sure that the vast majority of people that eat steak also watch porn.

Ok, another example... Gay men who watch gay porn. The gay porn didn't make them gay - but since that is where their sexual interest is, that is what they probably watched before having their first gay experience. They were going to suck some cock regardless - the gay porn didn't push them over the edge.

If a straight man watches some gay porn, I don't think he would be more inclined to lick a sack unless he had an existing disposition to do so prior to the viewing.

It is a conundrum and I do understand where you are coming from - imagine a world wide web where the pop ups where not for adultfriendfinder, but virtual 4 year old gangbangs. I think most of us can agree that would be rather deplorable.

I think the demand for that sort of thing would be so low that it would never come to that point. Sexual desire for prepubescent children does not fall into the realm of normal thought processes. Is it a disorder? Well, only if it interferes with the persons normal function.

Would you consider homosexuality a disorder or bestiality a disorder - necrophilia?


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:44 AM 

Interesting fascination with graphic descriptions of homosexual practices there.

Nevertheless, animals and children cannot give consent--nor can the dead.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:14 AM 
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It isnt illegal to be gay
It is illegal in 30 states to engage in bestiality
It is illegal in 17 states to engage in necrophilia

1) Murderer - noone is a murderer until they actually murder someone. They can desire to kill, plan a murder, buy weapons, train to use certain weapons, etc. The only thing that is really prosecutable is planning a murder, if one attempts to hire someone to do it. But, that doesn't make one a murder...just a conspirator. If someone got on TV and said they are having homicidal feelings, do you think nothing would come of it? Should we just let that person alone and wait for someone to die? I don't think they should be arrested, per se, but some sort of help maybe?

2) Robber - noone is a robber until they rob someone or something. They can be arrested for planning a robbery, however...given enough evidence is present. So here is a crime that can be prevented prior to it actually taking place.

3) Rapist - noone is a rapist until they actually rape someone. Unless they stalk their victim, this is an unpreventable crime. Noone can get on TV and say they are a rapist if they haven't raped anyone... If they said they had those feelings, though, I doubt it would go unattended to, however.

4) Pedophile - the difference here, is one can be a pedophile without actually ever touching a child. Even worse, is that being a pedophile isn't illegal. Only certain actions that result from being a pedophile. Any crime a pedophile could possibly commit is preventable. Make it illegal to be one. If you get on TV and profess that you are one, there's a clue right there.

I worked with a guy that went to jail for 2 years because a link he clicked off of a porn site sent him to a monitored child porn site. The guy was not a pedophile, had no interest in sex with children, etc. He just went to the wrong website at the wrong time, and had no intentions of doing so. I also live about 20 yards from a registered sex offender. Not too thrilled with that, but this guy went to jail and served his time. In his situation, his girlfriend told him she was 18, when she was 16. Unfortunately for him, he was 24, and that'll pretty much send you to jail every time. However, he's not a pedophile. So, when a piece of shit gets on TV and says he *is* a pedophile and proclaims that he's doing nothing illegal, I have a different frame of reference.

Just being a pedophile should be illegal. I don't think these idiots should be given the opportunity to commit their first crime. From what I understand, a ton of prison murders occur when murderers, rapists, robbers find out that their cellmates are pedophiles. Send them to jail, and let the convicts sort em out.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:38 AM 
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I'm not even going to start talking about the slippery slope that we'll be on once we make a mental disorder illegal.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:48 AM 
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Quote:
1) Murderer - noone is a murderer until they actually murder someone. They can desire to kill, plan a murder, buy weapons, train to use certain weapons, etc. The only thing that is really prosecutable is planning a murder, if one attempts to hire someone to do it. But, that doesn't make one a murder...just a conspirator. If someone got on TV and said they are having homicidal feelings, do you think nothing would come of it? Should we just let that person alone and wait for someone to die? I don't think they should be arrested, per se, but some sort of help maybe?

2) Robber - noone is a robber until they rob someone or something. They can be arrested for planning a robbery, however...given enough evidence is present. So here is a crime that can be prevented prior to it actually taking place.

3) Rapist - noone is a rapist until they actually rape someone. Unless they stalk their victim, this is an unpreventable crime. Noone can get on TV and say they are a rapist if they haven't raped anyone... If they said they had those feelings, though, I doubt it would go unattended to, however.

4) Pedophile - the difference here, is one can be a pedophile without actually ever touching a child. Even worse, is that being a pedophile isn't illegal. Only certain actions that result from being a pedophile. Any crime a pedophile could possibly commit is preventable. Make it illegal to be one. If you get on TV and profess that you are one, there's a clue right there.


The difference is, the pedophilia you are speaking of is a state of mind while the others are labels based on actions. Are you prepared to make kleptomania a crime because they might steal something? How about a "violent temperment?" Should that be a crime in case they one day murder someone? Rapist is the most fun comparison... are you prepared to make "being sexually attracted to anyone who isn't you" a crime, because you may one day rape someone?


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:11 AM 
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Nevertheless, animals and children cannot give consent--nor can the dead.


If you seen the look in that chicken's eye, you would have known I had consent....

My point isn't about the victims - its about sexual disposition - and it's not about legality, it's about disorder.

Are you saying it is a disorder to be sexually attracted to things that cannot give consent? Is it a mental disorder to be attracted to inanimate objects - to be aroused by fetish? I mean, a dead person is a thing - it's no longer living. If I fuck a raw piece of sirloin, am I fucking the cow - can I go to jail for necrobestiality? (for some reason, it would not surprise me to learn that necrobestiality actually exists)

I really don't think getting a raging hard-on when you see a rubber boot is normal, but I don't think it's illness either.

I dunno, yeah pedophilia is skeevie - but what can you do about it? Lock up everybody who just happened to be "born that way" - Where is that going to lead us? Are we going to lock up homosexuals? People who have turrets? Or are we just going to lock up people who have sexual attractions to things we find inappropriate?

Now, I don't want anybody to get the wrong idea here, I am no child predator advocate or defender of the pedos - The whole thing is intriguing though, the provocative title "thought police". Can we lock people up for their thoughts? Can we lock them up or take away their freedom for being an advocate of something we dislike? Can we lock them up for being an advocate for something that is illegal? (Goodbye Woodie Harrelson!) Just because this topic is one of the most deplorable of the deplorable, can we deny anybody their liberty because they don't think like the main stream?

Oh and just a quick note about the sexual predator database - That is some scary shit - the problem is you don't get the circumstances surrounding the thing. I would feel a lot better living next to they guy that was 24 who nailed a 16 year old that told him she was 18, than some guy that lured little kids into his house to take pictures of them eating Popsicles from the celler.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:41 AM 
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I don't think so much that people are born pedophiles. There have been studies correlating it to abuse and also to porn addiction.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:58 AM 
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Quote:
Are you prepared to make kleptomania a crime because they might steal something?


Nope, because that Genuine Acrylic Ashtray doesn't give a shit that you a) wanted to steal it, b) stole it, c) got caught stealing it, or d) returned it. There are no irreversable or irreparable damages from these actions.

Quote:
How about a "violent temperment?" Should that be a crime in case they one day murder someone?


Watching horror flicks, browsing grossshit.com, extensive knife collections, even being prone to violent outbursts that don't result in any harm to actual persons or property don't make someone a murderer. Murdering someone does.

Wanting to rob someone doesnt make you a robber
Wanting to rape someone doesnt make you a rapist
Wanting to fuck a kid in the ask doesn't make you a pedo...wait...yes it does!

Because there is an obvious difference between rapist, robber, murderer, and pedophile, they should be treated differently. People who love to argue always want to group things together that really are dissimilar just to attempt to make a point.

"If we make wanting to fuck a kid illegal, then we'll have to make wanting to rape a chick illegal" no we won't
"If we make wanting to fuck a kid illegal, then we'll lhave to make wanting to rob a bank illegal" no we won't

I own "The Matrix" on DVD. Lots of killing in that movie.
I own "Ocean's Eleven" on DVD. Lots of theft in that movie.
I own "I Spit on Your Grave" on DVD. Lots of rape and murder in that movie.

I can't go to jail for watching any of these...
But if I owned and watched "Monsignor Flannigan and the Altar Boy Orgy" . . . . . . .

Somone, somewhere knows there's a difference.

There's an 8 year old boy getting fucked in the ass right now, wanting to tell you what you can do with your slippery slope


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:06 AM 
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So, just because you think having the desire to do so is reprehensible, they should go to jail?

What about people who have these urges, recognize that they are wrong, and do not act on them, or seek help for them?

Do you lock them up because they admitted they had the urges, which in your argument would be the same as confessing to a crime?

The moment you make *thoughts* illegal, what's to stop people from making more and more "thoughts" illegal?

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:24 PM 
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Nope, because that Genuine Acrylic Ashtray doesn't give a shit that you a) wanted to steal it, b) stole it, c) got caught stealing it, or d) returned it. There are no irreversable or irreparable damages from these actions.
So by that logic, if someone knows that you want to punch them in the nose, it should be a crime and you should go to jail beings it is obviously the knowledge or belief that you feel causes the damage.

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Because there is an obvious difference between rapist, robber, murderer, and pedophile, they should be treated differently.
You're absolutely right, there is a vast difference between a murderer, a robber, a rapist and a pedophile. Out of that list, only being a pedophile resulted in no victim and no actual action. Replace pedophile with child molester and you would have a valid complaint, except for that child molestation is already illegal (and rightfully so, throw them to the fucking sharks).

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I can't go to jail for watching any of these...
But if I owned and watched "Monsignor Flannigan and the Altar Boy Orgy" . . . . . . .

Somone, somewhere knows there's a difference.
It's almost a shame that you're so emotional over this subject that you are incapable of basic reasoning. Do you know why watching a move containing children being sexually abused is illegal? It's because children were harmed during the filming of that movie.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:42 PM 
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I think he'd be fine if it was a different subject, he just has strong feelings on this matter.

I'll admit, I do not have children. However, I do not believe that if I did, my feelings would change.

*wanting* to do something and *following through on that desire* are two completely different things. Once you step up from making the following through illegal to making the wanting illegal, then you have a problem. Might as well toss the Constitution out the window.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:33 PM 
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Quote:
It's because children were harmed during the filming of that movie.


Not by the person watching it, though... I can understand the filmaker being in heaploads of shit. But the viewer? They were sitting in their living room in front of the TV, not harming a soul. If that's the only thing they had ever done related to pedophilia, they'd still go to jail. The same core values that make watching child porn illegal should be the ones that make stalking children, just like the jackass in question, illegal.

Quote:
However, I do not believe that if I did, my feelings would change


I understand your rationale. I thought *exactly* like you do now, before I had kids. You'll understand one day, I promise.

Look fellas, I understand you can't prosecute people for stuff they think about. I know it isn't rationally possible. Some things just shouldn't be o.k. Some things should not be protected by the Constitution. Some things should be able to be treated as solitary situations without worry of what "other" situations it would affect. Unfortunately, it just isn't possible, and it makes me ill. This is the reason I could never hold any office of any sort. It would eventually be absolutely legal to hunt admitted pedophiles and certain registered sex offenders for sport.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:43 PM 

DraagunSoulstealer wrote:
Quote:
Nevertheless, animals and children cannot give consent--nor can the dead.


If you seen the look in that chicken's eye, you would have known I had consent....


:D "The beak said 'no!' but the eyes said 'yes!'"

Quote:
Are you saying it is a disorder to be sexually attracted to things that cannot give consent?


I am not sure where you get that from what I wrote--I am trying to avoid declaring large sections of behavior "mental disorders" or whatever term someone wants to use. Just about anything can be "abnormal" and even "criminal" if done in such a way that harms another person. Similarly, benign actions can harm a person--addictions, for example. Hence, what you give as examples would not be "mental disorders" per se.

Quote:
I really don't think getting a raging hard-on when you see a rubber boot is normal, but I don't think it's illness either.


Depends on the boot. . . .

Quote:
Lock up everybody who just happened to be "born that way" - Where is that going to lead us? Are we going to lock up homosexuals? People who have turrets? Or are we just going to lock up people who have sexual attractions to things we find inappropriate?


Why would "we" find homosexuality "inappropriate? Again, whom does it harm?

Human sexuality covers a very broad range of behavior that many would find "inappropriate" while many others find "appropriate." Fantasies, fetishes, all the way to foreplay. What consenting adults do with one another . . . to quote the wise actress

Quote:
Does it really matter what these affectionate people do—so long as they don’t do it in the streets and frighten the horses?

--Beatrice Stella Tanner Campbell, "Mrs. Patrick Campbell," responding to gossip about two actors.


Image

To try to define "inappropriate" based on "likes" and "dislikes" is as irrational as art criticism. "We" can agree that some behavior is criminal if it harms another person--or animal--like country-western music.

You examples demonstrate why one should not criminalize thoughts or even desires. Such become pathological--"mental disorder"--if they lead you to harm yourself or others. In about 40 minutes I hope to enjoy an ale celebrating the Glorious Red Sox scoring 6 in the bottom of the 5th to take a 6-5 lead then win it 10-5--Big Papi Grand Slam!

Clearly this is behavior that is supported by all of humanity . . . save MFYs fans, but they suck and are, by definition, mentally disabled. Indeed, one could argue if anything should be declared "illegal" it should be [GET ON WITH IT!--Ed.]

Er . . . right . . . why "abnormal" is often in the eye of the beholder. Now, my desire for my IPA is completely normal. IF it leads to many more and a car accident--or me driving my bike into traffic--or me starting a fight, blah . . . blah . . . the behavior becomes injurious to myself and others. Obviously, parts of that is already illegal, not the least "being under the influence" when doing certain things.

It is not illegal to be an alcoholic. The results of the addiction can be, and other effects are self-injurious.

Returning then to . . . SEX: sex with minors involves a people who cannot sufficiently understand the effects of the relationship and actions. The further "back" in age one goes, the more this is obvious. Someone might argue a "16 year-old" is mature--I rather hope 14, 12, and younger become more obvious.

Sex with animals? "We" condemn cruelty to animals. Michael Vick may have--if the details turn out to be correct--ended his NFL carrier--even Steeler fans have some standards!--and will go to prison. An animal cannot "consent" to anything; the relationship is naturally exploitive. Part of the condemnation is more of a revulsion to the act, BUT underneath that is cruelty to an animal.

Sex with the dead? Is that not simply dating the English?

Pauses for laughter.

Desecration of a corpse: "we" tend to feel people have a right to some respect after they are dead. as with bestiality, there is a revulsion factor, but the dead cannot consent to the action. That is part of the legal basis.

--J.D.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:45 PM 
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We haven't brought up the very gray line that pedophelia is, either. If I'm attracted to a 17 year and 360 day old girl, am I pedophile and should be locked up? How about 16? 15? Where exactly is this line? What if I don't know the age of the girl and I'm attracted to her, and she turns out to be underage? Did I magically become evil in that instant?

There are other times and cultures where girls routinely got married and had kids to men much older at ages that today we would find reprehensible. Were they all evil too? What about the father that arranged that marriage? Is he evil and should be locked up too?

I think someone already said it, but Shaaz... you're comparing apples and oranges-- it should not be pedophilia compared to murderers and rapists, but "child molester." That was the point of my previous post.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:22 AM 
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Why would "we" find homosexuality "inappropriate? Again, whom does it harm?


I understand what you are saying - What I am saying is homosexuality and pedophilia are similar in that the person has no reign on their desire. If you are going to condemn a pedophile you could as easily condemn a homosexual - I understand that homosexuality is not illegal - but what if it were? And who is to say it won't be (if the right had their way about it)? As for the "harm" - well, haven't you heard? It erodes our moral foundation. duh.


But anyhoo.. on to Fribur.. which is much more fun -


My wife and I had a conversation about this the other day after passing one of those "to catch a predator" programs. I said "Yeah, it must be real hard to find guys that want to have sex with a 16year old girl". Seriously, they are gonna find dudes all day long that are willing to "bang the grey line" - What they SHOULD be doing is having girls pose as 10 year olds on there - somebody prepubescent. I think most people can find a 16-17 year old sexually attractive - I mean, I liked 16 year old girls when I was 16 - why would I wake up one day and be all like "ewww gross". That being said, the general public has a filter that says "16 year olds can not make an educated consent to the act, therefore I will not try to have sex with them". I know it is taboo to say a 16 year old is attractive, but nobody is fooling anyone - like you said, it has been very acceptable in the past (even prized) to get a young girl who can give birth.

But it's not about age so much as the person. There is a big difference between the 17 year old wearing the tank top with no bra and a mini skirt so short you can see her panties and the "normal" 17 year old. There is a difference, I think, between finding a 16-17 year old chick on MTV dancing provocatively sexual attractive and finding say, Hermione from Harry Potter sexually attractive.

And with that being said, I don't think it's a stretch for T.C.A.P. guy to IM a 16year old girl (so he thinks) and say "I wanna lick your boobies" to which she responds "that sounds like fun" - In that instant, she just became sexualized.

Also, and I may be wrong on this, but I think the law has different degrees for sex with minors - for example, if you are the principle of the school of the victim, you would get in more trouble than if you were some dude working at Macdonald's. I think the punishments are more sever if the child is under a certain age too. This, again is all speculation - these are things I have heard.

But, yeah I think there all all sorts of varying degrees of crime depending on the circumstances, however you are still a registered sex offender, and that is probably the "worst" punishment of all.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:15 AM 

DraagunSoulstealer wrote:
I understand what you are saying - What I am saying is homosexuality and pedophilia are similar in that the person has no reign on their desire.


And a heterosexual does?

Curious.

Quote:
If you are going to condemn a pedophile you could as easily condemn a homosexual


Just not rationally.

Quote:
As for the "harm" - well, haven't you heard? It erodes our moral foundation. duh.


I will assume that is facetious. In other words there is no harm. Then one loses any rational objection.

Quote:
But anyhoo.. on to Fribur.. which is much more fun -


I think the work "comfortable" is what you really mean.

As for the rest, methinks you would do well to actually read the material from Perverted Justice rather than speculate about it. You would not make such a statement:

Quote:
I said "Yeah, it must be real hard to find guys that want to have sex with a 16year old girl".


The members do not "look" for predators; predators find them:

Quote:
Q: Can you bust so and so because they're a real perv?

A: Unfortunately, we do not work off tips from the general public. Yes, "so and so" may be a terrible human being and a pervert to boot, but we have specific protocol behind every bust. The first of those protocols is . . . do not IM a person first. That is one reason why we won't follow up your tip.
. . .

Q: Is it entrapment?
. . . these people IM our names first. We don't IM them. They choose to say the things they say, to agree to the things they agree to, and to give their phone number for the verification call.

Perverted Justice


You will find information on web pages devoted to promoting attraction to children.

--J.D.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:34 AM 
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Yeah, i don't know much about the show, I've never watched the program in its entirety.

No, heterosexual have no reign either.. we are all in the same boat. You can not control your desire.

Yes, it was facetious.

Quote:
I think the work "comfortable" is what you really mean.


I have no problem responding to your statements.. nothing you said was especially thought provoking or interesting, or I had no real comment to make.

Was there some specific thing you wanted a response to? I would be more than happy to accommodate you. Nothing gives me more pleasure than sharing my thoughts with people. Well.. pie... but other than that...


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:17 AM 

DraagunSoulstealer wrote:
I have no problem responding to your statements.. nothing you said was especially thought provoking or interesting, or I had no real comment to make.


"Desperation is a stinky cologne, John!"

--J.D.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:12 AM 
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Virtual child porn is relatively new (though drawings and other art aren't) but various computer programs can render extremely lifelike images of child pornography. In 'virtual' child porn no child is used or harmed in the production of the pornography. My two concerns are again, harm (through escalation) and determination (is it virtual...or not.)


I didn't quite get this part. I assume "virtual child porn" is when you have particularly lifelike images created by computer? How is that different from a cartoon, in essence? I don't see where we can draw a line of "this is just too real". I just think art is art no matter how you cut it. That being said, I'd agree it's wrong if the image in question was created by someone who used a real child and used them to draw it.

I'd agree with one of Draagun's statements that "escalation" is kind of hard to prove in such a circumstance. What really makes a person act on their impulses? If they're already addicted to child pornography I would say there's a good chance that whatever force brought upon that addiction is already going to bring them to do something far more heinous with or without the images.

I think this becomes dangerously close to Jack Thompson-style line of thinking: that if you view or pretend to do something enough, that people will be inclined to act on it in reality as well. Do violent videogames and movies make people violent? Based on what I've seen, I really don't think so. Such people are usually violent from the getgo.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:25 AM 
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Or you could actually have sex legally with a 16-17 year old, but god forbid, don't take naked pictures of her, THAT'S CHILD PORN!!

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:45 AM 
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In the business I work in, I see a lot of porn that seems to cross the line...

Girls who are over 18 (identified as such by their 2257 records, but who look like they could be 16, 15, or even younger. I would post links to such URL's, but I won't.

That's where I think the "virtual child porn" thing could also come into play. It could also feed the pedophile fetish, while not actually causing harm to a minor. of course, it could also cause "escalation" -- touchy subject.

I just feel that some people posting on this thread would support the idea of "thoughtcrime" as described in 1984.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:04 AM 
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Girls who are over 18 (identified as such by their 2257 records, but who look like they could be 16, 15, or even younger.

Also interesting. Pornographers like Max Hardcore's bread and butter is portraying legal women as illegal minors. Should that be legal? I mean, no child is being harmed - who cares if a 18 year old 4'10" 75lb Asian girl has a lolipop in one hand, a teddy bear in another and is getting anally assaulted.

God help me, I am about to quote wiki -
Quote:
Although Hardcore often depicts his actresses as young and sometimes beneath the age of consent, they are not actually under 18. In one of his films, an actress over the age of 18 was portraying someone younger, and the fictional character states that she is 12 years old.

Based on these movies, the city of Los Angeles in 1998 charged him with child pornography and distribution of obscenity. The fact that the actress was over the age of 18 was not disputed; they brought charges based solely on the fact that the actress was portraying a character who was under eighteen years of age.

Just before the case was brought to trial in 2002, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the statute prohibiting adults from portraying children in films and books was unconstitutional (See Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition). Based on this ruling, the child pornography charges against Hardcore were dismissed. The misdemeanor charge of distribution of obscenity was retained, but the jury failed to reach a verdict. An additional obscenity charge was subsequently levied against him by L.A., again resulting in a hung jury. Hardcore commented that "it was a frivolous waste of public resources."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Hardcore - be warned - graphic textual content contained within

So, I guess it is not illegal if an adult acts like a child in porn movies- Just out of curiosity, are renderings/drawings fictional writings of graphic child sex acts currently illegal? Anybody know?


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:09 AM 
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Well, LiveJournal recently had a fiasco where some Harry Potter fanfic communities were deleted because of the "slash" content depicting sexual acts between some of the main characters.

Granted, they also deleted some real pedo communities.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:17 AM 
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Vanamar wrote:
Until they commit a crime, pedophiles are just law abiding citizens like you or me.

Granted, this guy belongs on every possible watch list, but other than that... no.


Yup. As disgusting a character he is...


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:58 PM 
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Look fellas, I understand you can't prosecute people for stuff they think about.


Glad to see you agree with us.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:50 AM 
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Quote:
I don't think so much that people are born pedophiles. There have been studies correlating it to abuse and also to porn addiction.

Sarissa Candyangel


Far from conclusive, though.

Whether born with it or not, I think the bottom line is people don't just wake up randomly one day and decide they want to be sexually attracted to kids. It's an innate sexual attraction just like any other sexual attraction, they can't tell it to simply go away. People can control their actions, but they really can't control their own natural sexual attractions. Even assuming the two above reasons were the only causes for such attraction, abuse can't always be stopped by the person being abused and there are countless people who are probably addicted to porn and not all of them become pedophiles.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:08 AM 

Jack McClellan:

Quote:
He has been intensely interested in prostitutes for years, rating them, posting information about where to find them, their prices, etc. Now, he is doing the same thing regarding little girls. He rates them, publishes pictures of them, and talks about places to go find them and take pictures of them.

He has said that he is innocent, and has never touched a child, but, with words like this from his old website, it's likely that is false:

Quote:
There might have been a single mom or two with kids as well, but they all arrived in cars, so I didn't have the "need a ride?" offer to use, and the kids never separated from the parents (there weren't any playing in the park's playground on this cold day).


Corporate Sex Offenders


Now what a lawyer says:

Quote:
Can Nothing Be Done About the Pedophile Blogger?: How the Law Deals With Dangerous People

SHERRY F. COLB

Status Versus Conduct

For those who would like to confine child molesters in prison, however, the blogging pedophile poses a challenge. At least by his own account - an account that has yet to be contradicted with concrete evidence - McClellan has not molested any children, despite his evident urge to do so. To incarcerate a person because of his desires - when he has not acted on those desires - is to criminalize a status: the state of being a particular way. The U.S. Supreme Court said in Robinson v. California, however, that criminalizing a status (in that case, the status of being a drug addict) violates the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Accordingly, under our Constitution, a man's mere feelings of sexual attraction for children cannot, without more, form the basis for confining him in a cell. But what can one do to respond to the risk that a pedophile will molest children in the future?

Numerous states have passed legislation to address this contingency. Such laws permit the confinement of child molesters as sexual predators even if they have not been convicted of any offense or, if they have been convicted, if they have already finished serving their sentences. Repeat child-sex-offender Leroy Hendricks challenged the constitutionality of such laws in the early 1990's, but he lost, and the U.S. Supreme Court, in Kansas v. Hendricks, upheld the Sexually Violent Predator Act.

A majority of the Justices characterized confinement under the Kansas law as a valid form of "civil commitment," comparable to the institutionalization of mentally ill and dangerous people (including those found not guilty of a crime by reason of insanity).

Confining a person as "dangerous" simply by virtue of his desire to do something criminal, however, might not appear very different from confining a person because of a status. What is a drug addict, after all, besides a person who feels a strong urge to use drugs? To say that a person is dangerous, then, requires some proof that the person is likely to act on his urges.

McClellan's Blog
. . . .
Like the unapologetic candidate for parole, however, McClellan seems to revel in his desire to have sexual contact with children. By calling himself a pedophile, he indicates that he is not ashamed to feel the way he does but instead wishes to broadcast his desires. He is, in a word, defiant about his inclination to commit what most people view as a violent act that violates the physical and emotional integrity of innocent children. He is, perhaps more importantly, helping other pedophiles who want sexual access to children by reporting where a reader can find large groups of them.

A Map for the Child Molester

One important factor in judging McClellan is determining why he does what he does. Why does he provide information about where readers can find children? A relatively innocent explanation might be that he knows other pedophiles are always trolling for fantasy material, and he offers them locales for gathering such material. (I say "relatively" innocent, because I do not believe that staring at children to memorize their faces for later masturbation is an entirely harmless activity - for one thing, a child might notice a pedophile's stare, understand its meaning at some level, and experience a feeling of discomfort and self-consciousness that might color his or her understanding of sex in the future.)

If McClellan's goal were simply to ensure that people know where they can observe children in their native habitat, however, then listing locales would appear to be unnecessary. Without really trying, most of us regularly encounter children during the course of an average day. Indeed, for this very reason, pedophiles attempting to avoid re-offending after release report finding it difficult to stay away from places where children might appear.

It seems plausible - perhaps most plausible - then, to conclude that what McClellan is doing is providing a guidebook to people who hope to act out their pedophilic fantasies, a "Zagat's" for child-molesters. People who hope to victimize a child are more likely to succeed in their criminal endeavor if they target places containing large numbers of children (given the predictable chaos that often reigns over such places). If this is McClellan's goal in blogging - encouraging and facilitating the sexual violation of children - then one can properly deploy the criminal law to stop him.

What Sort of Crime Has McClellan Committed?

Traditionally, facilitating (or, in the criminal law lingo, "aiding and abetting") a criminal enterprise through speech is a legitimate target for law enforcement efforts.
. . . .
A rough analogy is the case of the Nuremberg Files, an anti-abortion web site that, among other things, posted the names of abortion providers. The site also included a line through the names of those providers who had been killed by anti-choice terrorists. As I discussed in a column that addressed this case, such "speech" - though it does not expressly state "kill these people; they deserve to die; here is how you find them" - seems strongly to imply these sentiments. And the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit agreed, in the en banc decision in Planned Parenthood v. A.C.L.A.

Another close analogy is to the web site "whosarat.com." This web site lists the names of informants and others cooperating with law enforcement, information gathered from documents that are technically public but to which few people have ready access. Some have attacked this site as inciting criminals to harm informants by giving them the information that they need to do so. The list also intimidates potential informants with the threat that their identities will be published on whosarat.com if they assist the police. Contributors to such a site, in my view, could be fairly characterized as having engaged in attempted witness tampering.

The Contrast Between Sites Defended as "Shaming" Sites and McClellan's Site

As with other cases involving speech, the crucial question is how clear the blogger's intentions are. In the Nuremberg Files case, the court found unpersuasive the characterization of the website as simply acting within its First Amendment rights to provide information to "shame" people associated with abortion (and provide a record for future legal action), much as a website listing companies that hire sweatshop labor might do. In the "whosarat" case, one could similarly reject defenders' claims that the goal is simply to expose and "shame" the people engaged in exchanging dubious testimony for lenient treatment by the criminal justice system.

The pedophile's blog is different. He is not even ostensibly attempting to shame anyone. He does not hope to deter parents from bringing their children to the various places he lists. On the contrary, he likely wants the children to remain there, so that his readers will find his information accurate and helpful and "tune in" to future postings.

Why does the pedophile want to let people know where to find children? Is his goal to help people locate victims for molestation? Many suspect that it is. If one could prove as much in a court of law, then it might be possible to prosecute him for deliberately exposing children to sexual assault and molestation.

It is important to avoid censoring even the most offensive speech, even when it takes positions in conflict with existing law. But if a site like McClellan's is intended as a map for child molesters, then it could be said to step over the line from advocacy to criminal facilitation.

FindLaw


--J.D.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:15 PM 
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That corporate sexoffender site just doesn't seem like it oughta be legal to me. - yikes, who's the stalker now?


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:38 PM 

Fortunately, both the law and reality are not determined by your "likes."

--J.D.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:04 PM 

One pedophile decided to go from legal forum to legal forum asking for advice on how to stop having his private information he publicly posted from being posted elsewhere.

The lawyers were generally unamused.

NONE OF THESE LINKS CONTAIN ANYTHING REMOTELY INVOLVED WITH THE ACTUAL CONTENT OF THE PEDOPHILE FORUMS/BLOGS:

ExperLaw

FreeAdvice

The response was not quite what the pedophile expected. Few, if any, had any patience for the "I love but do not abuse" accuses. Also, the asshat claims the information came from "hacking" his computer.

"Hacking" means to these colostomy contents that all of the public information put on blogs and forums were taken, collected, and posted by Perverted Justice. I should also note that it is not an uncommon "defense" of pedophiles to claim that all of the cyber-tons of pornography found on their hard drives was "placed there" by "the cops" and even, now, Perverted Justice to "frame them."

Instead, most of the lawyers flatly told him that nothing illegal happened, and that he should seek immediate medical attention for his mental disorder.

However, I must confess I enjoyed this response from a lawyer who inhabits both fora:

baystategirl wrote:
A pm I received form the OP [Pedophile who started the threads.--Ed.]. I normally wouldn't post in like this, but I refuse to trade pm with this "person".

Xthat90skidX wrote:
Are you the one who put my info on Wikisposure? I HAVE NOT ACTED. I want to ****ing kill myself. I need my information removed because I obey the law. I can't help having the attractions I do, I can however control them. I'm getting death threats for Christ sake.


I have not put your information anywhere! Anyone who googles your user name will get the information I got...If you don't like the exposure you are getting I suggest you stop announcing to the whole world wide web you are sexually attracted to little children!! To most adults you admissions are abhorrent and frightening! A lot of those disgusting site you chat on are monitored by agencies that are trying to protect children from deviants such as yourself....and if you had half a brain you would not be posting on a "pro-pedophilia" forum! That you think it is okay to sexualize small children is just flippin' sick..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do not pm me ever again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Expert Law


She then posted this on the other forum:

baystategirl wrote:
You like that one..How about this?? If you want to vomit after reading this fing PERVERTS quotes please feel free....I got this from another site..

I am calling his employer in the AM to let them know he is scooping 5 years old girls at work!!

FreeAdvice


Good on girl!


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:42 PM 
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Quote:
Fortunately, both the law and reality are not determined by your "likes."

You're a real fucking sweetheart aren't you? I can see why you were so popular at the skepticforum. - I said "seems like it oughta" I don't "like" or "dislike" it - I just feel like posting that in-depth of information about somebody could be dangerous - are we trying to see if we can get a lynch mob raised?

Just because ones personal information can be brought up through some Oklahoma-hung-gar-google-fu - does not necessarily mean that it should be splayed everywhere - especially when that information can easily be used to harm a law abiding person that does not "think" like the mainstream - people that incite extreme emotion in "the mob". I DO however think these people should be added to every single law enforcement database in the world.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:09 PM 
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Oh, and just a side note to you DoctorX - I don't know why you are intent on busting my balls here, but keep in mind, these other guys on this board, we go back and forth and we agree to disagree a lot - sometimes in a pretty nasty manner - but at the end of the day I have respect for them because I have been a part of this community for going on 7 years as have a lot of them.

I think a great debate and exchange of ideas is a wonderful way to pass some free time - but there is no reason to try to incite me into some sort of flame war - that's not why I post here.

I also have a great respect and admiration for Tarot (the OP) and since she brought you here, I figure she must see some sort of quality in you that I have yet to see. Yeah, I think you are a bright guy, but why act like a total ass?

You see "Sshaaz" there? I don't agree with him AT ALL - but I'm not gonna poke at him and try to condescend to him - his point, as wrong as I believe it to be, is his thought, and I appreciate the different point of view. Anyhoo - I guess what I am asking is, "Please stop acting like a tool". Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:32 PM 

DraagunSoulstealer wrote:
You're a real fucking sweetheart aren't you?


Sorry to make you cry.

Quote:
I can see why you were so popular at the skepticforum.


I am magNIfIcent, yes. Granted, Nazi-wannabes and those who think aliens were behind 9/11 do not recognize such. Curious you would find kinship with such.

Admits he had know idea what he was blathering about.

See? You learned something!

Quote:
Just because ones personal information can be brought up through some Oklahoma-hung-gar-google-fu -


Just simple "Google." No made-up martial arts necessary.

Here, let me help you--noblesse oblige--go to http://www.google.com, enter the ID of the pedophile, click "Return," and see what you get.

Let me know if you need pictures.

Quote:
. . . especially when that information can easily be used to harm a law abiding person that does not "think" like the mainstream. . . .


You mean "thinks abusing children is justified." I am not longer surprised that you agreed with the Nazis and Holocaust Deniers.

Thank you for the clarification.

Quote:
I DO however think these people should be added to every single law enforcement database in the world.


Which is, of course, public. My compliments! I am always most gratified when someone supports my argument.

Quote:
Oh, and just a side note to you DoctorX - I don't know why you are intent on busting my balls here, . . .


You place them on an anvil, you hand me a mallet, yet you complain?

You are judged by your posts. Rather hypocritical for you to complain given your weak attempt to refer to other boards. I do not care if you post anywhere else, I respond to what you post HERE. Unhappy with this, perhaps you should think a bit more before posting?

Quote:
. . . but at the end of the day I have respect for them because I have been a part of this community for going on 7 years as have a lot of them.


"Sauce for the goose." See above.

Quote:
Yeah, I think you are a bright guy, but why act like a total ass?


Since you make various sexual innuendos, erroneous claims, behave the hypocrite, then throw tantrums, this would, unfortunately, sink you deeper than "ass." Since I am not an unkind man, I will not detail what part of the hindquarters anatomy that makes you.

"Measur'd in manner and speech."

Quote:
I guess what I am asking is, "Please stop acting like a tool".


To quote the old Buddhist proverb: "When you point a finger, you point three at yourself."

Or, to put it in terms you might be able to understand:

Image

--J.D.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:44 PM 
I schooled the old school.
I schooled the old school.
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Here we go again... ugh


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:46 PM 
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Oh, you're that guy... wow. Have fun with that.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:48 PM 
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Fribur wrote:
Here we go again... ugh

lol, nah, I got better things to do with my time...


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:51 PM 

Education is a privilege.

"Fun" has nothing to do with it.

In the rain.

--J.D.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:53 PM 
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God, here we go again.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:02 PM 
Cazic Thule owned RoA
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I dunno, it might be funny watching him talk to himself for 20 pages.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:16 PM 
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Did I say, "have fun with that"?

What I meant to say was, "have fun with hat"
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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:34 AM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!

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I think the sad thing is that in all of DoctorX's posts on this thread, he never ended up contributing anything interesting, much like the last few threads he was involved in. I'm glad you were able to point out that we forgot to dot our i's and cross our t's, but you'll need to work on your ability to contribute actual thoughtful posts on the subject matter before you can be taken seriously.

And, again, grats on learning how to post funny(only to you, of course) pictures on the internet.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:41 PM 
For the old school!
For the old school!
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Right or wrong, you should know your points as an orator are more impactful if you avoid being the "last word asshole". Your points will speak for themselves - you don't have to reiterate them with a recycled fark picture or a slightly relevant quote.

To the rest of you, if his point is to simply argue for the sake of argument. Don't respond. It's really that simple. If he's that type, and it seems that he is, neutering him with silence when he begins the last word barrage works wonders. Don't feed the troll applies even to those with coherent, relevant discourse that are unable to do so gracefully.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:34 PM 
Destroyer of Douchenozzles
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He's like the beta test for Khan Noonien Singh. He got all the arrogance and delusion that he's a superbeing, but they forgot to boot up the superior human strengh and greater capacity of learning ability.

Khan.....I'm laughing at the superior intelect.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:30 PM 

Elessar wrote:
Don't feed the troll applies even to those with coherent, relevant discourse that are unable to do so gracefully.


Would you prefer I had allowed his errors to stand uncorrected?

--J.D.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:29 PM 
Cazic Thule owned RoA
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Haha, I bet he thinks he'll get an answer too.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:46 PM 
Uh, I mean EZboard Sux!
Uh, I mean EZboard Sux!
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Venen wrote:
I think the sad thing is that in all of DoctorX's posts on this thread, he never ended up contributing anything interesting, much like the last few threads he was involved in.


Says who? You? Actually the stuff on the religious threads was quite interesting, and not just to me either. Go back and read the early pages of that thread as a reminder. Just because he said things you did not like and could not debate, does not mean they are not interesting.

So yes, I do think the posts on those threads were interesting, but I cannot say the same thing about you. You seem to think that you speak for everyone and that your uneducated opinions dictate reality.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Police
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:56 PM 
Do you smell that?
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Image


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