Junzo wrote:
After thinking about the topic I would say that simply creating something makes you a god. While a diety is something that is worshipped.
Diety = god(s) (including feminine). It means the same thing. I'm only mentioning that because you're not the first person to say they're not the same thing. Anyway the way I'm using both words...they're the same thing.
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If you create a robot then you are that robot's god.
Creating a child by this definition as well makes one a god.
Taking unorganized material and giving it purpose or creating something with intent.
It makes one a creator, but not a 'god'. I'm not saying that perception is wrong, simply that I'm not sure this would be something 'generally' considered 'god'. One could argue that we're all gods, or god is within us, etc. or god is everything literally...but that kinda weenies around the point.
In human culture, probably since literally the dawn of humanity, there's been god concepts. We have probably thousands upon thousands of 'gods' that various peoples have worshipped, believed in, etc. Many cultures had many gods, and the god concepts I think have varied tremendously. You have some gods (probably 'most' when we look at all of humanity) that seem human-like in that they have offspring, their own concerns, politics among themselves as it were, etc. But they're not 'human', they're gods. Then you have gods that are extremely scary (that one seems to worship out of fear), and gods that are by and large very benevolent. Some gods can be both those things.
I think if I told you about a god that you hadn't heard of...let's go with Banjo again (because he's so clearly fictional) and let's say Banjo was a god worshipped by a specific culture for 100 years. Then the belief in Banjo died out. But for that 100 years, Banjo had temples, priests, people worshipping, faithful followers, etc. The people shared a common understanding/agreement of what Banjo was, and believed in him. After telling you all this, if I asked you was Banjo a god...I think we'd all say 'yes'.
Using Superman as the offset, assuming you'd never heard of him and I told you all about Superman, and then asked the same question...I think we'd all say 'no'.
And by 'all' I'm discounting the odd egg who'd argue just to argue, I'm speaking always in the most general of terms.
So what I'm really trying to narrow down is; we can clearly identify "this is a god" and "this is not a god" (again whether or not they're "real"
doesn't matter) but what are the parameters we use? Is it just what I laid out, or is there more?
I don't think including 'anything that can create' as a god of the thing it created works. My parents are great and all, but I haven't seen them as a 'god-like' being since I was a very small child.
My pets think I'm wonderful, but other than, 'Thing with mop of red hair which provides yummy food' ... I don't really think I'm a god to them either.
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Does it make someone or something worthy of worship? /shurg
I'm simply tossing out how I would define a god. When you get down to the basic reason of giving worship to God, it's because of a feeling of debt is owed for the creation of all things. The ability of giving birth is viewed as having been given a part of the power of God.
I think why a god is worshipped or what's important about gods, etc. is a whooooole other topic. Not saying it's not interesting, and worth exploring, but think it ends up mucking up the point of trying to figure out parameters for how we can say a thing is or is not a god.
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Before anyone jumps on me, please note the diffrence in God and god. God= christian god. god= what we are trying to define in this topic.
In the mormon faith it's taught that "as man is, God once was. As God is, man may become." Which in essence meant that those found worthy would be able to go on and create as God does. All have within them the potential to become gods.
At the same time the greek gods didn't really create they were immortal and simply meddled in the affairs of man. Could then the owner of a company be considered a god of that business since changes are made at his/her whim?
Somehow I get the feeling you are looking for much larger and cosmic definition of diety though.
Yeah, I am. Though again, really interesting stuff on what roles gods might play in cultures, in beliefs, what niches they fill, etc. how they come about at all...all fascinating stuff (to me), the only thing I'm trying to get at here is a workable parameter of how we can determine what is a god.
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The most important thing to always remember though is "Ray, when someone asks you if you're a *god*, you say "YES"! "
That made me laugh really hard.
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To give a little more background into the discussion, I was actually debating with positive (or strong) atheists, who claim "there cannot be a god". That is a positive statement which requires evidence. They have to prove it. And of course...they can't. And yes, it is a belief if one says 'there cannot be a god'. It's a bit OT but generally such people will claim it's NOT a belief, it's simply a fact. Super duper, where's the evidence? And it becomes a circle jerk which often results in people either admitting that yeah, it is a belief (at which point hopefully they can stop mocking others for having beliefs when they have their own...not everyone mocks but the people I'm talking about do. They're kinda nasty about it actually IMHO). Or they become extremely rude and insulting, because it's easier to be a jackass than stick with the arguments.
Anyhoo, someone was playing word games, not so much to be a complete asshole, but to cloud the discussion. Rather than argue points, they'd simply get slippery with words as soon as it looked like his position was wrong (in areas of fact rather than opinion).
Anyhoo...what it boiled down to was that they ended up saying that their 'god' was the entire universe. That the universe, and the "laws" of the universe ... that was their god. To which someone else said, "That
can't be a god".
Which of course made me think, "Well wait...what
is a god?"
And no one could really define it in a satisfactory fashion without falling back on essentially "we all know what it is...really". Which I think mostly we do, but what parameters must something fit to be a god? What things could be apply to all gods which are not applicable to all 'non-gods'.
I've got the answer I've come up with, but as I've said...seems really lacking. Might be all there is to it, but it just seems like it's missing something huge and obvious...what that is, I can't think of. And it's a question I've been chewing on for a couple of weeks.