Austy,

Parkman couldn't read Petrelli's thoughts because petrelli generated a feedback loop because he unconciously 'stole' parkmans mind reading power. I imagine a similar situation happened with Sylar.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

But Park still has the top of his skull intact. I remember that about Peter though.

I finally got a chance to watch this week's episode, and ihave to say I was actually surprised by the twist with Nathan/Sylar.

I'd also have to imagine that as the president, 'petrelli' insisted on having the Haitian present at all times when Parkman was around for protection.

But then again, why not just eat his brain?

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

The problem with that Jeka is what theory of time travel the writers are trying to stick to...and there are MANY theories.

For example, if Future Hiro were to go back in time and kill Sylar then the timeline that Future Hiro is from would cease to exist...hence that specific Future Hiro wouldn't be able to travel back in time and kill Sylar...this is commonly known as the "Grandmother Paradox".

Now, if they wanted to follow the "Many Worlds" theory then it is possible...where there are an infinite number of worlds/timelines that fork off infinite times. Only problem here is that if Future Hiro came back in time and killed Sylar, it would create a new timeline so Future Hiro wouldn't be able to return to his original timeline.

Being as they killed Future Hiro in the "Post Bomb" future, and he'd already travelled back in time to warn Peter to save Claire I think they are going with the "Self Consistency" theory (which is a much more complex variation of the Grandmother Paradox. Basically it details that a Time Traveler can not actually "change" the past because he was always a part of it) because he didn't go back to kill Sylar but rather to prevent Sylar from kill Claire so Present Hiro could kill him and he returned to his own time seeing that nothing had actually changed.

If you're interested in time travel theories like I am, I'd recommend a book called "Time Travel in Einstein's Universe" by Richard Gott...it give pretty good examples of multiple theories plus Einstein's perspective on the subject.

_________________

What I wish was addressed more often in time travel theories is what I'll call the location problem. For example, in Heroes, somehow Hiro's ability has to be able to travel through time, but also adjust for the rotation of the earth around the sun.

If I travel 24 hours into the future but remain in the same location, I'm going to be in the middle of space some 20ish thousand miles away from earth. Even if time travel were possible, the vehicle doing the traveling would need to be able to move itself along with the rotation of the earth around the sun.

ITS A FUCKING SHOW
IT ISN'T REAL

Time travel theories involve more than just "time" frib, they also include "space" eliminating the need for that idea.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

"Spacetime" - it's not just sci-fi, it's real sci!

You can think of any event as occupying a point in 4-dimensional spacetime - 3 coordinates (x, y, z) for spatial dimensions, and a fourth coordinate (t). So Hiro just performs a transformation on four-dimensional coordinates: (x, y, z, t) -> (x', y', z', t').

Who's to say that the sun is stationary? In fact, we know that since we're way out on the spiral arm of the Milky Way galaxy, the entire solar system has a velocity of rotation about the supermassive black hole at the center of the galaxy that far exceeds the earth's orbital velocity relative to the sun.

But wait, who's to say the black hole at the center of the galaxy is stationary? Relative to other nearby galaxies, our galaxy has a velocity that far exceeds the orbital velocity of the sun relative to the galactic center!

...et cetera.

This recursive loop can only be halted by the awesome power of the first assumption of special relativity - the laws of physics are valid in any inertial reference frame! In fact, there is no such thing as "absolute velocity," and you can put your coordinate system anywhere, moving at any velocity, as long as it's not accelerating!

So in other words, it's just as valid to stick your coordinate system on the surface of the earth, as it is to stick it on the sun or at the center of the galaxy or wherever. So time travel just contains the implicit assumption that the coordinate system of the time traveler is fixed with respect to the earth.

Yes-- I understand all that; that wasn't my point. If we assume time travel is possible, it seems at least more plausible if Hiro requires the knowledge of both where and when he must go in order to make the leap. When I can see him being able to determine. Where, however, seems to be much more problematic, since the movement of the earth is mostly incomprehensible for our minds. I have no concept of exactly where the earth is in space today, compared to yesterday for example. How could I tell myself to be on the earth yesterday?

It's a silly little thing, but something I always think about when I watch time travel stories. If a person stood in one place and went back in time 24 hours without also adjusting their location for the movement of the earth, they would implode in the vacuum of space!

yes, I'm silly. But hey-- we're talking about time travel in a TV show...

...on a message board about a dungeons-and-dragons based roleplaying computer game that no longer exists.

If we can't have unmolested dorktalk here, where can we have it?!

I guess the idea I'm trying to get across is that specifying a point in space is really not as complicated as all that. It's just a matter of choice of your reference frame.

Sure, you could choose your reference frame to be stationary with respect to the sun, and then you'd have to figure out where the earth would be at any given time so you don't pop up in empty space, or half-embedded in an asteroid, or something (it wouldn't be too hard... probably a cheap astronomical software package could do the calculations in less than a second). But you could also choose your reference frame to be stationary with respect to the galactic center, or to the center of mass of our cluster of galaxies, or literally anywhere you want. Einstein said they're all equally valid.

What you are doing is presupposing a reference frame that's at rest with respect to the sun. But your choice is just as arbitrary - and just as valid - as any other. So why not just pick the simplest one (the earth) and forget about needlessly complicated calculations.

I completely understand what you are saying noojen; I simply disagree with the notion that we could simply decide that we are at rest by choosing ourselves as the center of reference and then disregard everything else. We know by observation that we are not at rest. As you said in your first post, "you can put your coordinate system anywhere, moving at any velocity" you understand that we are still moving!

If you don't like that answer, I'll give you another that maybe you will like. The first time you posted this point, you also mentioned correctly that your suppostion is correct "as long as the objects are not accelerating." I'll point out now that we *are* accelerating. Our rotation around the sun as well as our rotation around the galaxy is experiencing negative acceleration. Our galaxy itself is accelerating away from other galaxies (as part of the expansion of the universe itself).

...relative to what? Heh.

As for the earth's acceleration, it's a good point. One that Einstein tried hard to reckon with and never quite did, in his later years. In fact, there's no such thing as a perfectly inertial reference frame... as you say, the universe itself is expanding (and accelerating in that expansion). So if there's no such thing as an inertial reference frame, and special relativity's first postulate depends explicitly on the concept, why was special relativity accepted in the first place?

The answer, of course, is that it's a damn good approximation. Relativistic calculations that use the earth as an inertial frame give predictions that match experiment to phenomenal accuracy.

But anyway yeah I agree that there are more complexities to time travel than just turning back a clock or whatever. I guess the spatial complexities just aren't as interesting to me because we already know how to deal with them in "real life." The mechanisms for time travel are what's still open to speculation.

Best Show In the History of the World.

<img src="http://www.filehigh.com/serve/22633/416787.jpg">

Scrolling is evil.

And no, it isn't even remotely close to "best show". Although Company Man was a damn fine episode that will always rank up there, Heroes is just "fun".

Btw, Bryan Fuller (responsible for Wonderfalls and the above mentioned "Company Man" episode) has a new show in the fall line up called "Pushing Daisies" that is supposed to be rather good. Given the number of things he's done that I liked? I will be watching from the start.

Here's what the guy in "TV Guide" just wrote about the show...

"ABC just released the 100,000 word opus that is its fall schedule announcement, yet all I see are two words.

Pushing. Daisies.

I've said it before, and, now that I've actually seen the complete pilot, I'm saying it again with added vigor: This is the show. The one everyone will be talking about. The one we'll be obsessing over...

I can't wait for you guys to see it. It kills me that you have to wait until September. I'm tempted to stream the thing online myself, but then I'd be arrested and lose my job and that would suck for everyone.

For now, you'll just have to take my word for it. The 2007-08 TV season will be all about them Daisies."

_________________

Sarcasm + opinion.



Get a good monitor

even at 1280x1024 that image causes scrolling. It's not much better on 1600x1200.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

Loved the finale. I cheered for Nathan, and "Call me Noah" Has to be one of the most satisfying lines in recent TV history.


Really fun show.

yep-- I can't wait for next season!

yeah I felt pretty let down by the final too. It seemed forced. "Oooh we'll have Niki here hititng him, oh wait, we have to stop! Need to let the other people have a chance to act too!"

Yeah, the actual final battle was a bummer. I kinda knew that was coming though, when they waited till so late in the episide for it to happen. Still, I gave it a pass, because I really did enjoy most everything else about the episode.

That would have been badass. Yep

Um, unless I misunderstood you here, you are saying that Everquest no longer exists?

It does.

I still play.

Why did you post that? I mean, really... Do you really believe he thought EQ doesn't exist? Was it really that hard to figure out that he was referring to the server being gone-- do we really have to spell it out?

Not to mention that post is damn old and the topic has since gone elsewhere.

I mean... really.

I hadn't seen Raymcp since the old EzBoards before they crashed. He's probably just catching up on our post-Lanys server events! =p

_________________

If I'm not mistaken, he somehow manages to stay intact and regenerate to stay alive after he "explodes". Also, If I'm not mistaken it was mentioned he was able to do this because of claire's regeneration ability.

If his other abilities were "offline", then it stands to reason that he'd have been dust. But we see him in the future after the "bomb", and he's obviously alive (though a little worse for wear).

So that explanation doesn't really make sense... unless I'm just not understanding something.

It does, if I am reading what has been shown in the show correctly and the writers don't attempt to redo history.

1) We've never seen Peter or Sylar use more than one ability at a time. Or else, if I were Peter, I'd be invisible AND lobbing things with TK at Sylar :p

2) The only "exception" to this rule that we've seen was Peter kicking into regen when the glass shards hit him when he was invisible. There is some wiggle room for this being an automatic power and not one that is triggered per se. Sort of like flinching when the doctor hits "that" spot on your knee.

3) Peter throughout the show has had mini meltdowns when in the presence of multiple specials. His first dream about him being the bomb happened after he got sick when he was in the presence of Claire, the Haitian, the cop, and then Nathan (forget if anyone else was there). He gets triggered at the end because EVERYONE is there and his power flips out. At least, that is how I read it. He'd never have been the bomb if everyone wasn't standing there in the square with him.

So basically, as long as they keep the regen thing as an automatic reflex thing, the rest fits. He lost control of his ability in the presence of multiple specials...which I just took as their way of trying to limit his ability. Sure, he's godlike, but get more than 4 around him and he ceases being able to function. :p If it is a reflex thing, once he went nuclear, there'd be a chance to recover (as he is away from all the specials now) and the regen just kicks in.

I dunno. We'll see. I was very unimpressed with the finale.

_________________

bah, i forgot that one. ah well. scratch my theory then. :p

_________________

How do we know he used TK if he's invisible?! Maybe he's really athletic!

Or maybe, as there actually IS a future (he doesn't keep exploding) Peter learns better control of his powers? At the point in time of the finale, Peter seems to be unaware of many of his powers (unless because of how Sylar gained his powers Peter only has access to Sylar's original power?)