It is currently Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:58 AM


All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:48 PM 
Selling FBR First Torch!
Selling FBR First Torch!

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:12 AM
Posts: 104
Touting to be a "hardcore" MMO. Key aspect is Permadeath.

hmmm

http://www.wizardrythegame.com/


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:52 PM 
The Lurker at the Threshold

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:54 PM
Posts: 4156
Location: Atlanta, GA
EQ1: Vanamar
WoW: Kallaystra
Rift: Tarathia
Permadeath is a nonstarter.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:18 PM 
We Have Cookies!
We Have Cookies!

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:27 PM
Posts: 2450
Location: California
EQ1: Cakvala
WoW: Cakvala
LoL: Cakvala
Doing EQ Beta at the moment, I signed up for beta for this. But the perma death thing .. blah and ew.

_________________
"Creating Havoc and Pie Since 2001!"
My Website: http://www.anthonyhays.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cakvala


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:28 AM 
I schooled the old school.
I schooled the old school.
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:39 PM
Posts: 5009
Is it permadeath AND pvp?


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:28 PM 
Camping Orc 1
Camping Orc 1
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:23 AM
Posts: 460
Location: Bedlam & Squalor
Concept looks cool, but SOE's new "free to play" (a.k.a. pay to play) model is fucking awful.

Pass.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:57 PM 
We Have Cookies!
We Have Cookies!

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:27 PM
Posts: 2450
Location: California
EQ1: Cakvala
WoW: Cakvala
LoL: Cakvala
noojens wrote:
Concept looks cool, but SOE's new "free to play" (a.k.a. pay to play) model is fucking awful.

Pass.



You may not see it as popular but EQ general population has increased due to this, dramatically.

SOE has moved all of their games to this model with micro purchases, and soon to be DLC content.

_________________
"Creating Havoc and Pie Since 2001!"
My Website: http://www.anthonyhays.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cakvala


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:55 PM 
Destroyer of Douchenozzles
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:13 AM
Posts: 2102
EQ1: Givin
WoW: Tacklebery
EQ's F2P model isn't as stupid as the plan they have for their other games. EQ2 and Vanguard are barely playable.

But let's be honest. If you're playing EQ1 today, you're not playing for the game. You're playing because you have other ties there.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:45 PM 
We Have Cookies!
We Have Cookies!

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:27 PM
Posts: 2450
Location: California
EQ1: Cakvala
WoW: Cakvala
LoL: Cakvala
I agree with that Givin, I still cant figured out who still plays Vanguard.

_________________
"Creating Havoc and Pie Since 2001!"
My Website: http://www.anthonyhays.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cakvala


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:58 PM 
Trakanon is FFA!
Trakanon is FFA!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:05 AM
Posts: 1460
Location: Seattle, WA
EQ1: Tranthas
WoW: Niali
I didn't play them. What's the model like?


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:03 AM 
Camping Orc 1
Camping Orc 1
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:23 AM
Posts: 460
Location: Bedlam & Squalor
CakvalaSC wrote:
You may not see it as popular but EQ general population has increased due to this, dramatically.

SOE has moved all of their games to this model with micro purchases, and soon to be DLC content.


I'm not really concerned with popularity, Cak. I get that opening up a watered-down version of the game for free is good for SOE's bottom line. It gets new customers in, strings 'em along, then hooks 'em. I'd wager that the average EQ1 player these days actually pays more than they used to under the monthly subscription model.

The biggest issue I have with F2P is that when I play an MMORPG, I play in part to compete with other people. I like to compete on even footing. I don't like the idea that someone can just pay their way to uberness. It's the same problem that people had with people ebaying plat and toons in the old days of EQ1, just replace Yantis with SOE.

The other issue I have is that F2P is just kind of a sleazy business model. "The first one's always free" is a familiar phrase, but not one that I had heard applied to MMORPGs until a year or two ago.


Givin Wetwillies wrote:
But let's be honest. If you're playing EQ1 today, you're not playing for the game. You're playing because you have other ties there.

Yup. Most of us play for the people.

Givin Wetwillies wrote:
EQ's F2P model isn't as stupid as the plan they have for their other games. EQ2 and Vanguard are barely playable.

What's the plan for the other games?


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:20 AM 
Trakanon is FFA!
Trakanon is FFA!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:05 AM
Posts: 1460
Location: Seattle, WA
EQ1: Tranthas
WoW: Niali
Foul.

You're calling it "The First Hit's Free" when you want to make it sleazy, when you and I both lived through the period where more legitimate businesses preferred the concept of the "free sample", without the stigma of the earlier phrasing. What the F2P models are going for is the latter, and you're waiting until just now in your history to point out that they're the same thing.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:03 PM 
Camping Orc 1
Camping Orc 1
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:23 AM
Posts: 460
Location: Bedlam & Squalor
The difference is that shampoo or toothpaste or whatever free samples you're talking about aren't addictive. I think we've all been around long enough to recognize that, for some people, MMOs are. Call me crazy, but I think that fact has ethical implications.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:20 PM 
The Lurker at the Threshold

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:54 PM
Posts: 4156
Location: Atlanta, GA
EQ1: Vanamar
WoW: Kallaystra
Rift: Tarathia
That's like blaming Grey Goose for someone being an alcoholic, because a bar decided to give out free sample shots as a promotion one night.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:14 PM 
I schooled the old school.
I schooled the old school.
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:39 PM
Posts: 5009
I didn't see anyone blaming anyone.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:51 AM 
Trakanon is FFA!
Trakanon is FFA!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:05 AM
Posts: 1460
Location: Seattle, WA
EQ1: Tranthas
WoW: Niali
All valid points. This is a touchy and delicate subject, and I'll handle it with the compassion and tact with which you've all come to know and love me.

I agree that MMOs are addictive, but I also agree that the responsibility to be... well, responsible, lies with the user. We are nobody's helpless victims; each new game requires you to make enough intelligent choices to give them a credit card number, and ultimately we "victims" all have to remember we're adults with the ability to withhold informed consent.

The onus is not on game manufacturers to protect escapists from their predilections. Their choice to make a game that suits that escape does not amount automatically to enabling your addiction -- enabling is a crime of intent, and those folks have never met you. Man up and break off if that's what you need to do. Resources exist to help you if that's what you need; I help fund some of the local ones. Meanwhile, you'll malign no legitimate businesses with failing to protect you from your own demons -- those are strictly yours to fight.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:05 AM 
Shelf is CAMPED!!
Shelf is CAMPED!!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:24 PM
Posts: 1918
Location: Location
EQ1: Binkee
WoW: Wilkins
Rift: Wilkins
LoL: ScrubLeague
Nothing about this is touchy and delicate.

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:18 PM 
The Lurker at the Threshold

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:54 PM
Posts: 4156
Location: Atlanta, GA
EQ1: Vanamar
WoW: Kallaystra
Rift: Tarathia
Fribur wrote:
I didn't see anyone blaming anyone.


Saying something has "ethical implications" seems blame-ful to me.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:44 PM 
Trakanon is FFA!
Trakanon is FFA!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:05 AM
Posts: 1460
Location: Seattle, WA
EQ1: Tranthas
WoW: Niali
Randy, your sarcasm detector is on the blink again.

"Ethical implications" isn't automatically blame, but it's easily used as prep for blame in the next breath.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:58 PM 
I schooled the old school.
I schooled the old school.
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:39 PM
Posts: 5009
To those of you reacting negatively to just the words "ethical implications" I have to ask-- is it your belief that there is no ethical implications at all to knowingly enabling addictive behavior? If you believe in the case of MMOs there isn't, but you do believe there is for offering alcohol to an alcoholic, could you describe why you have that inconsistency? What makes it different?

If you believe that there are no ethical implications of any kind for either situation, do you believe it wrong for bartenders to be told the cut people off?

I'm looking to clarify where your line is-- at what point is it perfectly ok vs. there being some level of culpability. At what point is your culpability zero?


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:45 PM 
Shelf is CAMPED!!
Shelf is CAMPED!!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:24 PM
Posts: 1918
Location: Location
EQ1: Binkee
WoW: Wilkins
Rift: Wilkins
LoL: ScrubLeague
This game's probably a piece of the larger pile of shit that is MMORPGs. Talking about it any further is such a waste, especially when arguing for or against a Free-to-play model. This is stupid. It's nearly impossible to make a profitable game at $15 per month per user, and it's much harder to make a quality game under those budget constraints. Free to play is the way this genre is going to continue existing, because that is a way to deliver half a game at launch and finance the rest with the profits. This is a persistent service that requires constant development, and you can't do that with $15 subscriptions from an existing customer base that rarely increases.

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:39 AM 
Trakanon is FFA!
Trakanon is FFA!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:05 AM
Posts: 1460
Location: Seattle, WA
EQ1: Tranthas
WoW: Niali
There are other, um, ethical implications to buying stock on margin -- which is really what companies are doing when they sell you ten levels as free-to-play and expect ad revenue to fund the rest of the game. I agree with the point you've made, Randy, but what they're doing is still risky as hell. They've just found a way to take all the risks with other people's money.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:40 AM 
Trakanon is FFA!
Trakanon is FFA!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:05 AM
Posts: 1460
Location: Seattle, WA
EQ1: Tranthas
WoW: Niali
Fribur, your challenge deserves an answer and I'm writing one, but this thread's derailed enough; this will get its own.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:21 AM 
Shelf is CAMPED!!
Shelf is CAMPED!!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:24 PM
Posts: 1918
Location: Location
EQ1: Binkee
WoW: Wilkins
Rift: Wilkins
LoL: ScrubLeague
Are any MMORPGs ad supported? Free to play doesn't mean you're being sold ads, it means you're paying $1 to regen your mana faster.

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:05 PM 
Camping Orc 1
Camping Orc 1
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:23 AM
Posts: 460
Location: Bedlam & Squalor
Tranthas wrote:
I agree that MMOs are addictive, but I also agree that the responsibility to be... well, responsible, lies with the user. We are nobody's helpless victims; each new game requires you to make enough intelligent choices to give them a credit card number, and ultimately we "victims" all have to remember we're adults with the ability to withhold informed consent.

The onus is not on game manufacturers to protect escapists from their predilections. Their choice to make a game that suits that escape does not amount automatically to enabling your addiction -- enabling is a crime of intent, and those folks have never met you. Man up and break off if that's what you need to do. Resources exist to help you if that's what you need; I help fund some of the local ones. Meanwhile, you'll malign no legitimate businesses with failing to protect you from your own demons -- those are strictly yours to fight.

/shrug, I don't disagree with you on any particular point. I'm also a fan of individual freedoms and responsibilities. I never claimed that MMO addicts are helpless victims, nor did I blame game companies for enabling them. We all draw our own lines, and for me a business model that specifically trades on the addictive nature of a product crosses a line. Your mileage may vary.

Our society is full of addictive things, some of which we condone, some we regulate to some degree, others we outlaw. It's an odd consensus that emerges out of a sort of ethical dissonance. We seem to have collectively decided that selling cigarettes is okay (as long as we tax the shit out of 'em!), but selling cigarettes to people under 18 is not okay, and cigarette companies must inform consumers of the health impacts. Some states have banned giving out free packs of cigarettes, some cigarette companies have fought those bans, and so on.
Similarly, selling booze is okay, but not after 2AM, and not to people under 21 or to severely inebriated people, and not on Sundays (in some states), and not if it's over a certain alcohol content in certain counties in Utah....

Anyhoo, my wider point about F2P is that where's the fun in pwning n00bs when they can just buy levels or a vorpal blade or whatever. Yawn.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:43 AM 
Sports Guru
Sports Guru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:15 AM
Posts: 5746
Location: Houston
WoW: Peno
You guys talking about "ethical implications" of are being idiots. We're not talking about giving out free smokes or liquor to kids. We're talking about VIDEO GAMES.

Newsflash: VIDEO GAMES have had DEMOS, which amount to the same thing, for a very long time.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:05 PM 
Shelf is CAMPED!!
Shelf is CAMPED!!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:24 PM
Posts: 1918
Location: Location
EQ1: Binkee
WoW: Wilkins
Rift: Wilkins
LoL: ScrubLeague
The zero responses to Tranthas's misguided effort post I think make a fine testament to how dumb the conversation is.

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:47 PM 
Avatar of War
Avatar of War
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:43 PM
Posts: 182
Is this game going to be the famed "EQ Killer" that we've been waiting for?

_________________
Image
Musnicki


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:34 PM 
Destroyer of Douchenozzles
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:13 AM
Posts: 2102
EQ1: Givin
WoW: Tacklebery
randy wrote:
The zero responses to Tranthas's misguided effort post I think make a fine testament to how dumb the conversation is.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:12 PM 
We Have Cookies!
We Have Cookies!

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:27 PM
Posts: 2450
Location: California
EQ1: Cakvala
WoW: Cakvala
LoL: Cakvala
Masjaun wrote:
Is this game going to be the famed "EQ Killer" that we've been waiting for?


No this game is just another branch of the SOE tree. The EQ Killer suppose to be EQ Next whenever that game gets going.

_________________
"Creating Havoc and Pie Since 2001!"
My Website: http://www.anthonyhays.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cakvala


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:39 AM 
Trakanon is FFA!
Trakanon is FFA!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:05 AM
Posts: 1460
Location: Seattle, WA
EQ1: Tranthas
WoW: Niali
randy wrote:
The zero responses to Tranthas's misguided effort post I think make a fine testament to how dumb the conversation is.


I dunno, Randy, 31 views on a board with 8 regular users seems pretty high-impact to me. If you'd had anything to say on the topic itself, you'd have tried to shit on my face in the thread itself; that your response has to be dug out of this thread kind of suggests that you don't have anything to say there, so it's a little odd that you should open your mouth at all, but it's a free board.

By contrast, I'm the first response to your attempt at derision, so that's 31-1. Your move?


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:42 AM 
Shelf is CAMPED!!
Shelf is CAMPED!!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:24 PM
Posts: 1918
Location: Location
EQ1: Binkee
WoW: Wilkins
Rift: Wilkins
LoL: ScrubLeague
lol are you really trying to play big man re: ethics in business

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:25 PM 
Avatar of War
Avatar of War

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:39 PM
Posts: 180
Location: New Orleans
EQ1: Ekilam
WoW: Xinge
Rift: Xinge
EQ2: Xinge
Its a game. Their free to play model. I fail to see where ethics comes in at all. If people dont like it, then dont play it. Nuff said.

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizardry Online
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:00 PM 
We Have Cookies!
We Have Cookies!

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:27 PM
Posts: 2450
Location: California
EQ1: Cakvala
WoW: Cakvala
LoL: Cakvala
I got into beta with this and played it for about 15 min and logged in anger.. Really really stupid .. But ill give it another try with a longer window of playing.

_________________
"Creating Havoc and Pie Since 2001!"
My Website: http://www.anthonyhays.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cakvala


Top
Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Theme created StylerBB.net
Karma functions powered by Karma MOD © 2007, 2009 m157y