http://chronicle.ubi.com/newspost.php?id=18535

Heh, remember this failure of a PvP game? It was supposed to kill Dark Age of Camelot back in 2001, 2002, and nobody would stfu about it. Good riddance.

2003.

This is a little bit over a year after they wiped everyone's characters and rebooted the game. It was fun back in its heyday.

minus the memory leaks it was pretty cool

_________________

It was a totally badass game plagued by shitty programming. =(

I miss it.

I remember rolling around with 2 RL friends in this, all Mino zerkers. God what rape that was. Those birdmen archers were a popular combo at the time. Zerkers had some ability that would pull down flyers/hovers. We'd do that and just chop face.

Then there was one super alpha class that everyone rolled at the start. Way overpowered. Stupid amount of healing and nuking.

We ended up joining some random group that was a subclan of the servers uberguild. Their leader would always talk in ALL CAPS. "GUYS GET TO THE TREE AND WAIT WE ARE AT WAR" 45 mins of standing around and one random dude would happen by the city. If that.

GUYS DO NOT GO OUTSIDE THEY ARE WAITING.

I hated that fuck.

We put up our own tree and our own sovereign. I remember overnight beating that shitheads city walls down with a siege hammer while I slept.

I did sort of like the way item durability worked back then. It was a harsh mistress, especially if you found a REALLY great piece of gear on a vendor. the decay to uselessness made me cry sometimes.

I can't echo the whole "good riddance" bullshit at all because at its core, Shadowbane was pretty sweet. It was a lot better than Warhammer Online, that's for sure. You will never read the awesome stories of diplomatic warfare in Warhammmer that you had in SB. Im sure if you followed it, it would be very Eve like. And even with it's technical flaws, memory leaks and rampant exploiting, it was a fun game.

I have to disagree. I typically can understand your point of view and find myself agreeing with you most of the time but, this statement is just crazy. Given, Shadowbane of oddly entertaining it was a mess. For whatever reason it's misfortunes were at times the reason it brought us laughs but, WAR is head and shoulders above this game. Every patch distances itself from any other PvP attempt in MMO history. This is two opinions clashing but I still do not see how you can conclude that WAR deserves such a slap in the face.

Healer/Channeler!! Rawr.



Guess that depends on what kind of PvP you like.

That is the most laughable thing I have ever read Muligan. That shit might work on the FoH forums but I'm not falling for it. Warhammer is the most slap and tickle pvp offering there has ever been. There is no sense of loss. There is no objective. There are just carbon copy flippable tiles they call keeps.

You name me one thing in Warhammer that has the scope and level of importance that the trees did in Shadowbane. Hint, you can't. When you lose something in Warhammer that you built up and put effort into let me know.

How is it distancing itself? By filling in the holes that should have been in at launch? Choppa and Slayer? Two classes that offer nothing unique to the game. Another form of melee DPS. Same with the pair released before it. Copies of other classes just for the sake of the other side having them.

More battlegrounds? Great idea. Except for the fact that only 1 or 2 per tier get used to begin with. Shadowbane the whole world was a battlefield. If word got around that so and so's tree was under siege, odds are people headed that way to join in the siege or help defend. It was a lagfest yes, but it was epic. Keep sieging. Don't make me laugh. You get just as much lag with none of the fun or sense of loss and gain.

And why didn't DAoC get shit on for doing exact same thing? Because they did it first. And why does Warhammer get shit on for doing it as well? Because its the exact same company selling the exact same game under a different name. There was more thought put into one zone in WoW "wintergrasp" than there were in a 5 year developed game.

Again it's perfectly fine to enjoy warhammer. But don't sell me a mustang and show up in a volvo.

Also Karl Franz in a cage lawl.

yeah i think the reason shadowbane didn't work was because of its fundamental difference from other games: you lose your city, and it's gone. you don't get it back if it gets destroyed, you start over. it was a nice brave thing, but i remember taking part in destroying someone's town, laughing and high-fiving over it, and then having my guild's town taken down by one of their allies the next day and feeling like i got punched in the gut.

_________________

EXACTLY

PvP games need more of that. Things that get you emotionally invested, things that make you go, "Goddamn fuck those fucking fuckers!!!" Things that happen that you'll look back at even years later and think, "Damn those were some times."

PvP games now are like, "LOLOL CHUMS THEM SURE WAS SOME FISTICUFFS, LETS HUG AND REJOIN THE BG TOGETHER!"

This is why I prefer EVE for my PVP Goodness.

You describe this as a negative, but I read it as a huge positive. This is what is missing from PVP games (except EVE).

i don't necessarily think it's a negative, but it is for all but a fraction of a percent of all MMO gamers. i personally think it's a great decision to have permanent loss, but i don't think i could be hardcore enough to play it again.

_________________

I sorta miss this game too. There are things I remember about EQ from playing it so long, same for WoW...but for all the other games I've tried, this is the only one that I can remember specific laugh out loud moments. Joining a grind group and having Miggent sneak up on them...having me let him know who was master looter...then waiting for that guy to be alone, away from everyone else, sitting down...then watching him get almost 1 shotted. Ugh, I still laugh when I think about it...

Givin, I can agree with the importance or weight on losing something in Shadowbane in comparison to WAR. However, Once you get to T4, is where the true sense of loss enters the game. If you lose a capital city, you are an outcast, you pretty well can't do anything. The other tiers are just fun training exercises to prepare you for T4. There's no use taking away everything you know and love until it truly matters, ie the end game (T4). This allows you to try and learn different strats, explore style of play, and get acquainted with the way you play your class. At first, I thought this was rediculus but, then I began to understand that everyone playing this game do not have 10 years of MMO know how. This is good for probably 60% of the playerbase and once they get to T4 and actually have to play and fight for something of value they know how.

Overall, the game is designed to be fun. It's not meant to make you cry at night over a BO you lose at level 7. That's just ignorant and jaded. Your idea of epic battles in SB are nothing in comparison to attempting to lock zones in T4 and prepare or defend forts or capitals.

This is exactly why you have posts on starting on AoC x months ago, rolling back on FFXI, finally getting bored with WoW. Games are meant for you and the way you think they should be. That also means because they do not meet your standards or whatever, your negative evaluation encapsulates the overall premise of the game. You were much more unbaised than this before in your game review but now you just seem like a jaded brat who wishes every game was a hard as EQ, looked like WoW, and seasoned with the way you think a game should be.

So don't give me this "you're not falling for it" bull and be a straight shooter and give this game and anything other game it's fair shake because people really may want to consider it. There's really no way to come to any conclusion because, as I said, it still comes down to opinions but, you are just wrong.

Sense of loss... You can lose everything. I think not being able to zone into your Captial City is a pretty big deal. Therefore, every single BO, Keep, and Fort has value. Do you want to strat looting corpses? Docking EXP?
No Objective? Capture the opponents Capital City.. Thus capturing each BO, Keep, and Fort.
Flipping? That's in everything that is PvP. If you are killed or suffering some real estate loss you will take it back, get it back, or have different outcomes everytime you begin taking and/or defending. However, WAR has it that if you are truly successful in taking a Capital City or Dominating a zone, you can't take it back. Do you want to have Perma lock keeps, or we can make it to where you take the capital city and you get to keep it forever. That makes tons of sense.

Also, everything they added into the game that "should have" been in the game... we were not charged for that. This has also been in every MMO since EQ. No one ever delivers everything. At least they are filling the holes. Most MMO's are swiss cheese and just keep adding swiss cheese expansions.

Go be unrealistic and bitter somewhere else... this just disappoints me. Anyway... at least you said it was ok to enjoy WAR, for a bit I thought I was shallow idiot who didn't understand MMO's or PvP games. haha.

About the closest thing I can relate to this was playing BRE; it was all fun and games when you were doing the one doing the (figurative) raping and pillaging but when you were on the receiving end, not so hot.

Should I have to wait years before I'm able to look back and potentially realize that that was fun?

What you're missing is that people like to win, and that's often sufficient motivation to play 'hard', I didn't need to wager my bike in order to enjoy a game of street hockey.

_________________
Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

Except that in most PvP games now, no one loses. (Which is quite different from everyone winning, btw.)

And your analogy is bad...no one's talking about wagering RL possessions for a game.

Whether real or virtual, people still place a value on them.

And I can't speak for other games but in WoW, there's most definitely a winner and a loser in a battleground or an arena match. Are the penalties for losing severe or the rewards for winning grand? Maybe not, but that's my whole point, winning or not losing is often adequate motivation.

_________________
Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

Most people don't do WoW BGs to win, they do them to finish them so they can do them again. heh

There's no real winner or loser. It's just a constant mediocre mush of blurred honor farming with terrible pugs, almost no memorable experiences and little incentive to do more than AFK at a flag.

PvP follows pretty much the rest of Blizzard's philosophy: Have no losers by virtue of not really having any winners either.

You know, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt Muligan. I'll give Warhammer two months. One month to level. One month to do the T4 content. I may not need all of one month to even level.

None of the keep improvements excite me. I will acknowledge they added in some things. But I am going to look at this as somebody coming back from launch, which was a huge disappointment. I'll give it a fair shake. I'll even roll on a losing side so I can see a capital city get taken.

But they are going to have to seriously put effort into this if you expect me to believe a timed lockout on a zone is even in the same league as having your entire sovereign destroyed and wiped off the face of the game world. Warhammer is as controlled as it gets when it comes to pvp outcomes. There can only be three possibilities. Red beats blue, blue beats red, or stalemate. There is no social backbone or infrastructure that drives the game. And that is a huge mistake especially when you tout yourself as being the premier PvP game of choice.

I did give WAR a fair shake and can't say I disagree with Givin. The only time Order pushed into IC it was buggy as hell and didn't work, then reset. Then we pushed back to the dwarf fort and the server died, couldn't see players within like 15 feet of me. Keeps 90% of the time are just traded back and forth for gold bags. WHA forums are more or less filled with accusing each other of zerging and not having a fair battle, or scrubs setting up 3v3/5v5 etc to relive their arena/DAoC days. I tried to go back and start a new character but it takes forever to get into a scenario now.

Show me a game that does have a social backbone and i'll play it. However, WAR does have more of a social presence than any game I have played in the last 5 years. This is exactly why I play it. I know who to group with and who not to group with. I know the good leaders, the best guilds, who to listen to, and who to avoid. To win, you have to be organized and listen. It blows my mind that people do not understand (or have not caught on) to how easy it is to win most SC's or take a keep. Saying that, it's the players' fault, no the game. For some reason, people are idiots in MMO's today. A guild like Conquest (EQ era) would easily win anything and everything, in regards to any aspect of WAR against the current playerbase. The great thing about this realization is the fact you are now seeing guild only Warbands. Guilds are now coordinating Keeps, Zone locks, and City pushes. I think we forget how long it takes a game to invent itself regardless of it's design.

You may still be seriously disappointed Givin, i'm not going to deny their shortcomings but, I really have to applaud this game for what it has done. I have a line item list of fixes and ideas WAR could probably use but then again, I did with EQ after I understood the game a bit more. I think we also belive that MMO's have been in existence long enough to were we give them no excuses to execute their game at the highest standard. However, it's a new game, with some new ideas, some rehashed, beg, borrowed, stolen, whatever. Regardless, it's coming a long and though I'm not protect my own player built keep, praying that someone doesn't macro my wall down overnight, I still HATE to lose anything. I don't like to lose and maybe WAR relys a bit much on a person's natural competiveness and desire to win instead of a internal system of gain vs. consequence.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy and if you don't... well, the market is full of mediocre games missing ideas that could make them so much better.

Disregarding most of the arguments in this thread, I just wanted to post a /salute to Shadowbane.

Enjoyed the game despite it's problems, but it was guild warfare and the cheese that really drove me elsewhere. Shame, really, as it was quite a fun challenge otherwise with the PvP aspect and assassins lurking about. Playing a scout back then was a death warrant, hahaha. But Shadowbane was far more enjoyable than most other games during that period (i.e. Horizons, SWG), put it that way.

Absolutely loved my Elf Ranger/Bladeweaver. Best looking character model ever, with those long curved swords.

I bought Shadowbane, and I couldnt deal with the performance issues enough to try and enjoy it.

as far as PvP, Everquest: Discord Server. Anyone?

I'm still leaning towards EVE Online for PVP. Multiple types of PVP all wrapped into one.

Come play on PwnedEmu! It's not Discord, but it's FFA PvP and it's free!

I was part of Shadowbane's beta.. it was fun, but unplayable due to the rampant bugs.

The PVP aspect of it was the best in any MMO so far though, precisely due to the reasons Givin outlined -- real, permanent loss.

Actually I renigged. And I will tell you why. I went back and read the Shadowbane herald. I read some of the stories there about the server histories and how it was shaped.

I realized then that there was no point in trying Warhammer again. Ever. They could change everything at its core and none of it will matter. There will never be any awesome stories written like these. Only two games have even reached the level of awesome this displays. Shadowbane and Eve Online. Everything else just follows the standard Mad Lib fill in the blanks PvP story bullshit.

Rest in peace Shadowbane. The greatest PvP experience of the century. Its crowning achievement was making people forget about that god awful click to move bullshit, by overshadowing it with awesome PvP.

Oooo, lemme try!

The ___ and ____ both want ___ from ____ ____ so they go and fight!

Horde
Alliance
Horseshoes
Arathi
Basin

YAY ME!!!! I wrote a WoW storyline!

Better than the nails on the blackboard sound of Tanise saying in vent "Uhhh" midway through and after every sentence. The d0od is unbearable to listen to when he speaks. Good thing he is a fast typer....

_________________

_____
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
_____
VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

I think you are underestimating the value of horseshoes....and wolfshoes?

FYI, they've pushed back the final date for Shadowbane from May 1st to July 1st, due to "support and enthusiasm from the community".

If anyone's interested, I think it's a free game to play, and probably has a file download site somewhere. That's 2 months to check the game out before it dies, for shits and giggles.