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 Post subject: Vanguard Devs Fired?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 1:57 AM 
Cazicthule Bait
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News going around is that SOE dropped a large amount of the Sigil employees from the project.

Anyone else hear about this?


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 2:16 AM 
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Yep, it's all over the usual boards.

Maybe a question that's not really being asked is this: if it wasn't Brad or Butler, who really put together the mechanisms that made EQ so compelling? Please tell me it wasn't Abashi. Or was it a complete accident?


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 3:31 AM 
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Sad.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 6:55 AM 
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It wasn't anyone on Verant's staff that made everquest so compelling....it was the players. I will stand by that until my dying breath.

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 9:03 AM 
10 Years? God im old!
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I just think that the fact that Brad wasn't even present at the "Firing" was a sign that he really really didn't give a shit about either the game nor the company. Bitch took the money and ran like a cheap whore. I guess the good thing is that no development house would probably hire him after all this, what little reputation he did have went down the toilet like a chili and hotdog fueled turd.

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 10:02 AM 
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If this included Adam, I havent been around here much lately, I hope you get connected somewhere better, and shoot me a Pm if you get a chance.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 4:52 PM 
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Quote:
Maybe a question that's not really being asked is this: if it wasn't Brad or Butler, who really put together the mechanisms that made EQ so compelling? Please tell me it wasn't Abashi. Or was it a complete accident?


None of the above. EQ was so compelling because it was, for all intents and purposes, really the first of its kind.

What I find myself asking right now is this: If Vanguard is really "failing", is it because the game is bad, or is WoW really hogging the market so much that other MMO's are having trouble getting and keeping subscribers?


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 5:17 PM 
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Nah man. As a whiole, the game is really that bad. As with all games, you'll run across that rabid fanboy who claims its the best thing since sliced bread, but out of the box, even months after its launch you can feel it isn't right and nowhere near what it could have been.

The bad thing about it was, from the last beta and up into the open beta the general concensus was that the game would be fun to play, and the rate in which they were hammering out problems was unheard of. Then alot of people just seemed to not care anymore.

Mig will tell you this straight up also.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 9:23 PM 

We need Miggent to give us the low down.

Migg... I hope you get on SOE or something. I hate that you got the boot with a bunch of other good guys i'm sure. :( Please keep us posted how things are going.


Take care,
Muli


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 12:23 AM 
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Quote:
Maybe a question that's not really being asked is this: if it wasn't Brad or Butler, who really put together the mechanisms that made EQ so compelling? Please tell me it wasn't Abashi. Or was it a complete accident?


I've already addressed this, even before VG came out. It was the combination of individuals in the top tier of Verant, Smedley being a key player in the development stage at that point. McQuaid was one who added to it, but he was merely the most outspoken developer on the boards, so people just generally flocked to him.

Abashi? lol. I really don't think he had all that much to do with the original development... he came along pretty late in beta phase I believe. His title was Associate Producer.

Smedley has a lot less to do with the actual development now than he did back then I'm guessing. His first real online game was Tanarus, and I think he even helped program that a bit as well as overseeing the development. I can't imagine him going straight to EQ from that and having nothing to do with the development. Even the EQ graphics engine had a number of similarities to Tanarus' engine.

I'm sure there were other people in the upper tiers that helped with it besdies Smedley, but he was a key figure. He probably doesn't have to pay much attention to the design as much as he used to, and thus you have a decline in gameplay while they still hold onto the namesake and use trademark gameplay mechanisms.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 2:45 AM 
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Just heard about this. That really really sucks. I'm really sorry to hear Mig was included in the layoffs. The way it was handled...just wow. What utter bullshit.

Really hope you get scooped up by SOE Mig, it would be their gain.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:52 AM 
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Here's Nino's post on the FOH boards. For those that don't know, Nino was a dev with the Vanguard project that is pretty well respected in FOH land.

Quote:
There is much I would love to unload about right now, but seeing as I am feeling pretty emotional while trying to respect the wishes of remaining Vanguard management, I will refrain.

I knew this was coming months ago, as did most others, so I made arrangements prior to the whole unfolding of events today. Sony was kind enough to invite me and a few others to form a small team and to start prototyping a 'new' project. While we've done some 'secret' preliminary work, we begin in earnest tomorrow after we officially sign on with SOE. Don't bother asking about details, because you won't get any.

I became increasingly disenfranchised with the situation since the forced premature launch, which then culminated several weeks back when I decided I could not, in good conscience, continue serving the Sigil management staff in my over-extended capacity and stepped down. I would have walked away completely if this recent opportunity had not presented itself when it did.

I did the best I could with the time and resources I had at my disposal, but in the end it simply wasn't enough to bring the game up to the standards we all had hoped for in the time we had remaining. I apologize for any disappointments players have experienced. During the final year, I was pulling 80-100 hour weeks, and I was not at all alone in the building. I wish things could have been different.

While I was fortunate to stay employed, there were near 50 people today who were not, and it was painful watching the procession of stunned coworkers packing their belongings into little cardboard boxes with blank looks on their faces. I've never had to endure something like this, and I hope to never have to do it again. I know it is easy to point fingers at 'why' things ended up this way, but the vast, vast majority of the folks losing their jobs today had very little control on how events unfolded and many were skilled and creative people who simply wanted to make a great game.

The Vanguard team, obviously now much smaller, will go back to improving and fixing the game tomorrow. Myself and four others will be moving to a new location and beginning anew. The others will begin the process of trying to find a new place to work.

I promised not to be publically scornful, but I will say this: I hope those truly responsible for the deep rooted failings of the company lay in bed tonight and relive the events that transpired today in their heads, over and over. For not ONE of you is without your job come tomorrow morning.


here's the link:

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-g ... es-33.html


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 3:28 PM 
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I could envision SOE making another great game, but I don't see the majority of people going "OMG WOOT!!!" when someone says "I'm leaving Vanguard, but I'm beginning a secret project with SOE!".


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:43 AM 
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Hey guys, thanks for the kind words. I was indeed included in the recent cuts, and I'm currently working with a recruiter and applying to a few companies, SOE included.

The way all this went down was pretty... well, shitty, but the guys running the show were new to the whole "lay off 50 people" thing and I'm sure they will learn from this experience and find a better way to do it in the future.

Givin is right in what he said. VG had immense potential, but the bulk of the game was only implemented in the last 12 months or so. After release, we started getting optimistic numbers reported from management, but when they eventually began to refuse to tell us the exact numbers ("there's a lot of pieces of data that we're missing at this stage and we really don't want to pass around inaccurate numbers") we knew that things might be taking a turn for the worse. Around that time, the talks with SOE became known to us and the expected restructure of the design department was put on hold until the SOE business could be taken care of. The result was a period of limbo... we continued working on everything we could, but we lacked any clear direction from management.

The end result is what you see now. I'm no longer a part of the project, but even after having only been with Sigil for the most recent development phase I feel that I have gained enough experience to continue working in the game industry as long as I want. Everybody knows everybody, and networking is a lot easier than I had previously thought. There's also a lot of sympathy going around for those of us who are now without a job... everybody knows how shitty it is to get laid off, and I've found a lot of supporters in people who were strangers before.

The best piece of content I implemented at Sigil was the Graystone dungeon. I was given that empty chunk of underground and I really poured some fucking effort into that place. If any of you who actually play Vanguard end up there, remember that it was my baby. And enjoy your glowy goddamn weapon rewards, because I had to fight to keep the particles on them.


Peace,

Mig

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 1:23 AM 
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It almost makes me want to re-sub and go get my axe.

Almost. That brainstorm was pure genious.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 9:21 AM 
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Miggent, good luck man. From what I can tell you guys did an incredible job given the lack of time and resources you had to deal with.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 3:43 PM 
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Sorry to hear you were a casualty in this Mig. I played in beta some and mostly bought the game to see what changes they made and partly because I knew you were involved. I can't say I lasted past the free month though, unfortunately. Good luck and let us know what you can on your future projects. I know I'd be interested. :)

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 3:48 PM 
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Good luck Miggent. Hate to hear about anyone losing their job.


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