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 Post subject: Anyone playing a bard?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:31 PM 
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Guess what I'm looking for here is a rough comparison between EQ and Vanguard bard classes. Not necessarily the playability of the (dare I say it?) uber top-geared bard, but reasonably equipped...

Can they run FAST? Kite?
Do they have to constantly twist songs for multiple effects? (Not that I mind doing it, just that it's another level of concentration to maintain)
And does anyone know if they can actually stand toe to toe reasonably well in the upper levels without spectacular gear?

stuff like that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:56 PM 
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Can they run fast. Oh yes you bet they do... very fast. And with the size of the continents it's VERY nice.

Do they have to twist songs for multiple effects?
(This one might take time to answer)

They can only have 1 song they can use at a time.
But the can create their own songs from a bank of effects and they chose how they arrange them.

Taken from Tentonhammer web site: http://vanguard.tentonhammer.com/index. ... y&ceid=395

Quote:
III. Song Composition
As a Bard advances she will obtain song components that can be added to a bard’s song such as melodies, embellishments, lyrics, choruses, verses, bridges, rests and codas. These effects can be placed into slots to create a song. The Bard will gain more song composition slots to which she can add effects as she increases in level. However, a Bard can only choose one melody per song. If there is an effect (other than a melody) that the Bard likes, she can layer it multiple times multiplying the end effect. The Bard will create and name her own songs deciding which effects to add. The Bard will be able to create up to 30 songs, which will be stored on the server. The name the Bard chooses for a song will appear on the icon on player screens. nbsp;

Types of components:

Melody - The backbone of a song. Every song must have one and only one melody. Melodies cost 2 energy per second.

Embellishment - A song can have potentially 5 embellishment slots. Minor additions to a song. Small resistance buffs, debuffs and other minor buffs.

Lyric - Potentially 4 Lyric slots available. Lyrics provide many different effects. They can be power buffs, debuffs, increased run speed, weapon procs, levitation and more.

Chorus - Potentially up to three chorus effects per song. They are high powered lyric like components.

Verse - Potentially up to three verse effects per song. High powered effects such as DoT’s, snares and regenerative effects.

Bridge - Potentially up to two bridge effects per song. Very powerful effects.

Coda - Potentially up to two coda effects per song. Very powerful effects. Coda’s use 8 energy per second.

Rest – Do not add anything to the song but rather negate some of the energy consumption. Rests can go in any slot.
IV. Power vs. Rest
Each song effect adds benefit to the Bard’s group and consumes power every time the effect is refreshed. When creating a song, the Bard must choose between adding additional effects and conserving power. A Bard can conserve power by adding rest effects to his songs rather than adding beneficial effects. Rest effects can be placed into a song to lower the power usage. Using rest effects lowers the song’s overall utility, but allows the Bard’s song to play longer, possibly indefinitely, if enough rest effects are used.

V. Instruments
Instruments are used for out of combat effects like run speed and regeneration. Instruments magnify the effects of the song’s components. Each instrument has a mod on it. If the mod matches the mod of the particular song component it will amplify the effect even more.

VI. Twisting
There is no twisting per se. While songs can be changed, the song effect instantly ends when a new song begins. Although, the ability to add multiple effects to a song essentially has the same effect as twisting.

I'm playing a cleric but if I ever make an ALT it will be a Bard. They are great so many posibilities with them and no carpal tunel syndrome ehehe.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:08 PM 
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Cool! Thanks for the link and info! I realy didn't think that kind of info would be out there yet, else I woulda Googled for it. *chuckle*

I'm trying to convince myself to try Vanguard. Reading info from the link is definitely piquing my interest. More of a weapons in hand DPS bard class certainly sounds promising. And the detailed composition of songs sounds awesome!

Even though WoW didn't have them and EQ2 made bards kinda bleh, the games did have something going for them that I'm finding hard to give up. I could log in and actually do SOMETHING if I only felt like spending an hour or so online. Is there stuff to do in Vanguard in that limited amount of time?

I'm not really looking to start any easy mode/casual player arguments here. I'm not expecting the greatest gear when I play that way, it's understood. I'm just wary of what I am hearing that there is a substantial time investment involved with Vanguard and I just can't find the energy to spend 5 to 6 hours a night (sometimes 10 a day on weekends) like I used to do in my early days of EQ.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:24 AM 
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Playing a bard atm and one important note is that when composing the songs, the embellishments can stack so the VG version of Selo's can actually be made of multiple +runspeed portions thus vastly increasing the runspeed.

Likewise +dmg, +stats, +haste effects, all can be doubled up or more as your song "size" increases through the levels.

Composing your own multi-effect songs is alot of fun and an interesting "twist" on the class if you will.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:41 AM 
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Very punny!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:59 PM 
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EQ1: Givin
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http://www.imgshost.com/uploads/0bb9e4bfae.jpg

Bought it the other day, and this is the first thing I saw when I made my char.

I figure it's not you, but it struck me as pretty haha.

And yeah, I have a ton of shit turned off till my new comp parts get here in a bit so it looks like shit.

EDIT: Fixed for scrolling issues down below


Last edited by Givin Wetwillies on Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:37 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:16 PM 
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Geeez that's enough to make you want to un-install and cancel your account right there... Scary first sight.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:25 PM 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:11 PM 
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What server you roll on givin?

And bards are freaking great utility chars, can't think of a 6 man group that wouldn't be able to make use of 1 be it for pulling or increased dps or mana regen, or charming or mez etc.

VG did bards really well. Group invis is great at 26 i think, but they fucked up invis. Nothing like being lvl 28 and having invis drop unexpectedly around lvl 16 mobs which realistically shouldn't attack you anyway but do and then stun lock you to death. Was so happy VG had gotten away from unstable invis timers :(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:13 PM 
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I'll take 1 bard over 5 psionicists~~~~~~ =P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:43 PM 
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We are on the Shitbreath server, or however its spelled.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:15 AM 
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I'm on Shitbreath too with some other Vita folks. Givin, what are your thoughts about the launch so far as compared to beta?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:01 AM 
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With todays patch, I can already say that the nerf bat commeth.

Heavy tanks complaining that their agro abilities were stealth nerfed to cost more endurance.

Mitigation bug in Offensive stance stil in game.

Disciple is no longer flavor of the month.

Sorcs are on the chopping block with their AEs.

Somehow Shaman avoid the nerf bat and continue to be overpowered soloers.

I do await the return of Fellowships tho. And more than 4 hair and facial hair choices.

Pretty good launch in all accounts. No real issues here at all. It's a pretty enjoyable game, and I am suprised they were spared so much idiot runoff from other mmorpgs.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:59 AM 
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Yeah, my monk took a crit% chance hit yesterday, but nothing that's gonna ruin my experience. There are quite a few needed nerfs needed really, so I'm not shocked to see some of them happening now. Disciple might have been hit a little too hard. Sorcs need to be brought down a little. (Sorry Turb!)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:09 PM 
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Well, bought the game and rolled a bard. He's all of a whopping 10 right now, and I'm loving it so far! Mix matching song components is an interesting spin. Most of all, I love smacking a mob and actually seeing the hps roll off it at a fairly impressive rate.

Any ideas how the class stacks up in later levels? I'm not expecting to be able to tank at higher levels, but want to be more than a speedbump for mobs...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:43 PM 
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i agree sorc's needed some retuning but both were abit drastic.

CV doesn't do much on a lvl 30+ 4-6 dot mob now, 400+ mana killed it.

AE...45 endurance, you are fucking joking right? AE'n was not that productive and solo AE'n was a bitch using energy rift. IF you are going to AE you snare ae anyway. Energy was a nice spam finisher but now its just. ...blah. Plus endurance for casters is the dumbest fucking idea I have ever seen in a game to date...ok not really but close.

Do we need any more artifical caps.....already capped at 20% spell focus max which isnt the easiest to get to begin with.

Oh well it had to be done, hopefully will balance it abit out.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:15 AM 
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They stealth-nerf'd monks as well. I used to be able to solo the 3 dot 13 clay guardians going into the gardens but now I can't even get them to half way before having to FD...

They also reduced the monk crit chance on the fist weapons by half which really sucks balls...

Haven't played my warrior yet to see how bad they SN'd his class...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:55 AM 
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I play a monk too, and I can agree with them lowering our crit a bit. Seemed to be critting quite a bit going from chain to chain to chain. Anyway, didn't impact me too much, can still judo chop the face.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:03 PM 
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Screw monk, we need tanks!!!

Whats monkie's name?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:40 PM 
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I believe they more or less halved the light fighters crit chances on specials to drop the number of finishers they could chrun out. Disciples should have known better that they weren't going to get nerfed, seeing as how they could fight better than any straight melee class could.

Taking out 3 bulb mobs 5 levels over you is so WoW paladin. They should have known better.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:20 PM 
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They really need to nerf cleric mitigation and disciple dodge ability. There's no way those classes should tank as well as the fighter versions of their armor type. Clerics mitigate as well as war/DK/Pal and disciples dodge as well as monks.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:25 PM 
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But we cant taunt so its ok, we wear plate after all.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:09 PM 
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Quote:
Screw monk, we need tanks!!!

Whats monkie's name?


Well, if I COULD get a group, in guild or out of guild I would play him. But for 4 nights now I ask for a group and get the response "If you were 3 levels higher I would take you or no response at all. So I go play my Monk on Shidreth...

I did get on this evening and play the Warrior for a bit...in a PUG... lost more XP than I gained....

And to make matters worse, they nerfed the Wars defensive endurance so bad you can't hold agro for shit now. It really is pathetic. You get one friggin attack besides kick whick is Taunting Strike now 27 endurance does only 75% weapon Damage + 31-41 which used to be 9 endurance I believe. It rarely EVER crits so unless you are lucky and get a crit with kick all you are doing is pressing Taunting Strike, Taunti and kick. by the time you go thru that 3x you are out of enurance.

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Last edited by Xkhanx on Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:08 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:50 PM 
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Well we have about 60 people now so guild groups been going pretty good. And later on tanks such a damn rarity that you can't but help get a group. Plus I think they are due for some major changes so hopefully you will get some loving.


Hhug and me are PL'n our twinked out bard/bloodmage tomorrow along with a few guildies. We should have 1 spot if you want to join us, should be some pretty crazy and fun mass huge pulls:) Prob start around noon.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:51 PM 
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I will probably start playing soon. Same thing, lesser giant warrior.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:03 PM 
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Rolled a half-elf bard this morning. Last MMO I played was EQ2 a couple years ago so it's been interesting to say the least. I have everything cranked up on max settings and the game looks really nice.

I just can't figure out how to use my damn bow. It would be nice to be able to use something for pulling. :(


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:50 PM 
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For the bow... Equip the bow, equip the ammo, Open your abilities box and under adverture i believe its called drag over the ranged attack button to a hot key.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:01 AM 
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Warriors don't come into their own till 14ish for tanking. It's just like a wow warrior, you dont get shit to put in your defensive stance untill a few levels later. Different story once you start getting shield slam and the like.

Warrior is my favorite class to play in a group so far. Not big on the other heavy tanks. Dread Knight doesn't leave me with an awe feeling like the EQ Shadowknight and Paladin doesn't interest me.

The Leap Attack change, well more like removal made me go O_o but it's ok. I didn't roll warrior to solo or DPS. If the game can hold my interest, and so far it does the job nicely, one day I will main tank dragons and megabeasts for some lucky guild and collect legendary loots. For some reason, my wife is an agro ripping Cleric. Of course she just got her hands on some badass yellow 2h hammer and im using shit sword and board for now. Good practice for later.

I'd like to hear from warriors here, or warriors in your guilds reaction to the removal of Leap Attack. I'm indifferent, as I HATED the fucking animation since the last patch. I liked it a lot better when it was just a high crit % opener for Devistate.

Monk is my 2nd favorite class thus far. I've rolled 2 so far. First an Orc, who just was met with problem after problem untill I finally deleted his ass out of disgust. The Martok areas start out great, and then go to epic and total shit about level 12. Then you are forced to run cross country into elvan lands, where NPC display bugs are more dangerous than the mobs you eventually find to slay. I cannot count on both hands the number of times I was slew by a yellow named quest NPC who just decided he didn't like me all of a sudden.

So I made a Qaliathari Human one. He is a badass. I do not know why, but it feels already that he's doing superior damage compared to my Orc.

Nice also to read about new questing hubs put in for mid levels. A lot of people concerned about the amount of dead space in the world still.

I like this game, a lot. And I do not know why. The video display bugs with the 8800 series really give me a headache. Wife and I have two identical PCs. She at first got the white blocky textures, and would sometimes reboot. They just recently showed up on my PC. I'm positive it isn't user error or hardware failure and the various tech forums confirmed it. Hoping for a solution soon for that, if not from Sigil, but from Nvidia putting out a new non shit driver set for the 8800s.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:54 AM 
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Try setting the In game Shaders LOD to 0 in the video options with the 8800 as a temp fix.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:07 AM 
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17 warrior on Florendyl.

Leap Attk was a great opener for Decimate chain reaction, but had
a global cool down timer. Better to trigger off a kick or shield bash
for an immediate chain reaction. The leap was dumb and annoying.
I'm guessing they pulled it when they saw folks were almost guaranteed
a chain reaction from it, OR were tired of the leap / no-leap animation debates.

Really liking warrior. Using sword and board, all brute's armor and
sword for high DEX to raise crits and evades. Interesting they changed
str to increase blocking. Been putting points into DEX, CON, STR, but
more so trying to get all 3 above 100. Then will continue focusing DEX,
then CON, then STR.

Offensive stance solo, was using leap attk, kick, shield bash, and
occasionally devastating blow to trigger decimate which would allow me
to land 300-600 hits. Tried dual wield, the extra offhand dmg wasn't
worth losing shield AC, block, and shield bash attk. Haven't tried using
2Her yet. Defensive stance while grouping, I swap DB with taunting
strike, which is a nice aggro 100 dmg attk to spam.
Waiting for the AE taunt, as some fools still don't comprehend /assist.

PS what's up with the horizontal scroll on the boards, shouldn't it wrap based on browser sizing?

Azzi


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:16 AM 
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Azzi wrote:
17 warrior on Florendyl.

Leap Attk was a great opener for Decimate chain reaction, but had
a global cool down timer. Better to trigger off a kick or shield bash
for an immediate chain reaction. The leap was dumb and annoying.
I'm guessing they pulled it when they saw folks were almost guaranteed
a chain reaction from it, OR were tired of the leap / no-leap animation debates.

Really liking warrior. Using sword and board, all brute's armor and
sword for high DEX to raise crits and evades. Interesting they changed
str to increase blocking. Been putting points into DEX, CON, STR, but
more so trying to get all 3 above 100. Then will continue focusing DEX,
then CON, then STR.

Offensive stance solo, was using leap attk, kick, shield bash, and
occasionally devastating blow to trigger decimate which would allow me
to land 300-600 hits. Tried dual wield, the extra offhand dmg wasn't
worth losing shield AC, block, and shield bash attk. Haven't tried using
2Her yet. Defensive stance while grouping, I swap DB with taunting
strike, which is a nice aggro 100 dmg attk to spam.
Waiting for the AE taunt, as some fools still don't comprehend /assist.

PS what's up with the horizontal scroll on the boards, shouldn't it wrap based on browser sizing?

Azzi


Screenshot above is messing it up!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:41 PM 
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like this game, a lot. And I do not know why. The video display bugs with the 8800 series really give me a headache. Wife and I have two identical PCs. She at first got the white blocky textures, and would sometimes reboot. They just recently showed up on my PC. I'm positive it isn't user error or hardware failure and the various tech forums confirmed it. Hoping for a solution soon for that, if not from Sigil, but from Nvidia putting out a new non shit driver set for the 8800s.

Thank you... i thought i was the only person i get total blue screen but in 1'' blue blocks that have colors in each block and reboots my pc... well i hivae to reboot bc i can't do anything... yea 8800 makes me cry when i crash 8x a day.


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