Many haters and fanboi's alike out there that can debate till they are blue in the face whether this game is going to be great or if it is going to offer something different then anygame out there etc. Until it is live and more then likely a few months after no one is reall going to have a good idea so no point in arguing. They have been pushing it back for a long time trying to make sure everything is right and they also did extensive long term project management work for the project which I highly doubt almost any mmorpg to date has done so I at least find comfort in that.

This post isn't about trying to debate the issues that have been debated, more so just a reason that "some" people really might find the paticular path vanguard is choosing to follow very attractive.

Last night I was...I had a dream. I was in the middle of a very involved fight nuking a pretty mean looking goat beast when I saw in worldchat a name that instantly rang a bell. Pewj.....so I gave the person a tell and asked if by chance he had played on Lanys.

Low and behold he had, it was my long long lost friend from the days of high hold. I had not talken to the guy for what....6 years plus? But I remember those days as if they were yesterday. Me, pewj and a few friends were exploring high hold which was still very new at the time. Marc the mage was standing up on a ledge slaughtering everything as in his 20's and one of the highest on the server. One of the clerics (cecila? she had her account hacked and lost all her gear destoryed way back when) was standing there farming the gnolls for that elusive polished granite tomahawk that most players had never heard of even. She got very upset when we came by and said it was her camp!!!

Now I know....blah blah woop dee doo another nostalgic story who cares right. But it made me realize those were the true reasons I played eq back in the day and love it so much. Seriously.....seeing the name of a guy 6-7 years later and being able to remember the joys we had, that is just something that really means something to me. Everyone plays for different reasons, and even though I love raiding more then anything I look back and think of all the fun times I had exploring new things, competing with others at times, working and compromising at other times.

The players really make the game and from my dreams and from message boards I definitely get the feel that the general player base is more of the old eq mind and more mature then what some might equate to the "average" wow player.

You just can't have the community that we all once were part of in alot of todays big games be it FFXI, WoW etc. Sure there is a trade off of having to learn to cooperate, share and lets be honest..devote some time to the game to advance. But shit....people are going to be playing it either way so what the hell does it matter if they spend more time to reach the cap then if they were to reach the cap fast and bitch that there isn't anything to do. As long as the ride up is meaningful a longer grind isn't really hurting anyone, its all perception.

I played WoW....loved alot of aspects of WoW. Great game but it failed in the community area and lets be honest....the game just isn't as meaningful for some when you finally kill uber mob XXX or you finally craft that super rare item and the only people that know or give a fuck are in your guild.

The only real point of this is that I hope some of my old friends who miss the community aspects of the old days are going to give this a try. It might just bring back what alot of us are looking for. Some it won't but it has a greater potential then anything that has came out to date to do this if they follow through on alot of there plans.

Oh and to save the people that like to point out that "you are just trying to relive eq days and that is going to ever happen again." All I have to say is personally I want to relive the joys of the community that we had, I expect a hell of alot better game then EQ was shit its 7 years in the future!! But EQ had alot of components that allowed for that community to be developed and even though some of these parts of the game actually created small head aches etc if you step back and look at the larger picture you will realize they help created the experience that has really effected alot of us in a way nothing else to date has.

Food for thought.

Instances killed the community. In the other thread I said i didn't like the engine, but I re-installed it and I actualy like it now (it helped that this time my key settings saved themselves and I wasnt getting stuck on grass at the noob starting ground.) Enough that i will probably buy it when it come out.

Screw you Turbo for making me re-install it.

Old EQ people constantly complain that WoW has no community.

Let me offer an alternative explanation: we all got older.

1. We already built our community, and simply don't want to start again.

2. Add to that, it's going to be impossible for any game to compete with our nostalgia.

3. We are no longer in high school (obviously this doesn't apply to all of us). The flaming and silly huge dramatic arguments over stupid shit that entertained us in EQ and made us feel like part of a group no longer entertain us.

4. It's impossible for any game to compete with our nostalgia.

5. Those in WoW as their first mmorpg seem to think there is plenty of community.

6. If you say in reply to number 5, "they just don't know any better," well, it's impossible for any game to compete with our nostalgia.

7. Raiding in WoW still requires "community." The fact that it is instanced doesn't change the fact that guilds have to work together on a nightly basis to beat that content. Perhaps larger scale community is a bit more difficult, but on the guild level it seems as strong as it ever was in EQ.

8. It's impoosible for any game to compete with our nostalgia.

This hijack brought to you by Quaker Oats.

I dont think you can point to any one factor of WoW and say thats what killed the community. I think it was a combination of many factors that all boil down to, the game is just too damn easy. You can max out your level in a couple weeks just by knowing what series of zones to go to, no powerleveling needed. You never need to step foot inside a dungeon, and since leveling up happens so fast, and there are just so many people on each server, who cares about rep when you most likely wont even run into the same random person more than once or twice. You can ninja loot from a major raiding guild and still have a shot at getting into another because its so easy to raid that there are a dozen or more at the same stage of progression on either faction. So chances are at least one wont have heard of you and will just see your "experience" by looking at your equipment.

You can grief and gank and even the person you did it to most likely will forget about it inside of a week. There is just no REASON to form a community outside of your guild. In everquest you basically got to know everyone your level because your level took so long to get through that you would spend hours with the same group of people and then log in the next day with another group, still all in that level and do it again. There werent so many people on each server that you wouldnt run into them as you went, in fact, it wasnt all that rare to just happen to level up with the same general group for alot of your gaming career just because it was the same 20-30 people in each zone. And because it took so long to level, with not so many people in your range, not too mention you were pretty much forced to group, you had to learn who the bad people were fast, in wow who cares? Solo is faster exp than grouping any day. So what if on the one day you decided to do some dungeon quests that rogue was a jerk? You will never have to deal with him again if you dont want to. You can go solo and level past that whole area and forget you ever met him.

You say "we" built a community like you were actually a contributer. You weren't part of the creation of the community, you moved your way in when you were uninvited, and you should be ashamed.


It's too early to tell what is possible and impossible. Many of us played EQ for 6 years. WoW is still in its "pre-Kunark" stages, as it were. Give the game a chance to build that history so we can have those "remember your first time you saw the racetrack in Shimmering Flats omg" posts, you impatient son of a quacker.


The flaming and stupid arguments will never go away until the idiots like you decide to leave the boards. We may not be in high school anymore (some of us were out before we ever thought about purchasing EQ, by the way), but so many of you act like fucking babies that it's no wonder you spend all day, every day, playing video games, visiting internet message boards, and even playing video games ON THE WEB (O-Game nerds, unite!) instead of going out into the real world and trying to make something out of your fat fucking worthless selves.


You mentioned this already, dumb dick. Get an original thought, please.


Is that a fact? Do you talk to people in Ironforge and ask them what they think of the community? Or are you so starved for friendship that you visit various random WoW server boards and try to be a part of their community as well? Remember when Cicely was the "official Lanys Cheerleader"? Don't be that guy, you fucking fuck.


The 1st time you repeated yourself, it was mildly amusing, now it just shows you for the attention-whoring bitch that you have always been. If you don't have anything to say, don't repeat yourself for the sake of making your post look Tarot-esque You don't impress us with your length, much like you won't impress any chicks with your "length" the first time you finally get one alone in your bedroom at your parent's house. How are Marge and Phil, anyway? Still hoping you'll mature and move out one day?


Open 40-man raids in WoW required somewhat of a community, but Blizzard is destroying that with the upcoming expansion where the raid content will be limited to 25-man encounters (or less). Even before, though, any random dumbass (like you?!) could join an open raid, ninja, and suffer no real consequences, which is unlike EQ. In EQ, the community knew about asshats like Uzziell and we could work together to make his gaming experience as difficult as possible. When a dumbass was a loot whore, we could write a "Dirty Fucking Loot Whore" post about it and others would blackball that moron, or we could go to the person's application post on a guild's website and let others know about his/her moronic behavior. That doesn't exist in WoW, and that is probably why you can even step foot in a raid zone, you scumbag.


Ho ho, you're so funny by "purposely" spelling impossible that way. Did you do it just to get a reaction? Are the boards your personal playground where you can abuse the English language just to amuse yourself? Do you care so little for this country and our forefathers that you would make a mockery of everything they did? Fuck you and the quacker buggy you rode in on. In fact, while you're at it, you should change the name to crackers instead of quackers, because you're all fucking nuts.



ps: ignore everything in italics, I was just fucking with you to kill the bordeom, thanks!

_________________

Wow Neesha. :p

Anyways.... I've said it before, but I will play the most hurtin game ever as long as there's a decent community feel to it. I know I could never replace you guys, especially you Neesha, you're one of a kind. :p But I'm hoping for something that at least is compareable!

_________________
-Rileigh (aka Golliwog)

This is certainly true. There is a marked difference in the way people handle ninja looters / griefers in WoW-- they simply don't, at least not to the extent we did in Lanys. But I also played EQ on other servers (I'm thinking of Innoruuk atm), and saw server situations where the community system was not nearly so well developed, and where frankly it didn't seem a lot different than my experience in Lightbringer in WoW.

I find it funny that Neesha would be the one posting this. As for the rest of the post I agree with what was said.

I think overall server population has something to do with that as well. Lanys had a pretty low server population I believe compared to other servers, which helped with the community. However, when I was playing EQ2 my server (oggok, while it was still around) was a very low population server as well and also had a pretty decent community (hmm, the cheers song just popped into my mind lol).

Here's a hint for those of you that may be looking to start on a new server in any game. Pick the server with the stupidest sounding name haha. It'll be pretty low-pop.

_________________
-Rileigh (aka Golliwog)

Meh alot of things i want to say but afraid of the people with no lives who like to tattle tail.

I just can't stand the people that do one of the following

A) complain that vanguard is using XXX copying WoW/EQ/etc, saying Sigil should be innovative. News flash....1) there is only so many ways to recreate the wheel 2) as with any good business you tend to spend your time trying to solve issues that need to be solved not add a bit of flash or something that already works. I assure you VG has more innovative idea's and idealogies to handle situations then anygame that I have beta'd or played (which is basically everything from eq beta on minus SWG). Sure the UI looks similar to WoW...omg its a f'n mmorpg UI there may be similarities.

B) Compare WoW to VG etc saying which is better. My only real issue with alot of VG players is that they won't stfu about the differences betweent he game and why one is better or worse. They appeal to different people and playing styles. Most will agree WoW's target base is more the casual player with short goals and many things that make life very easy (which isn't a bad thing). When I started WoW i was pretty damn happy with the change to be honest....I thought god damn this makes life so much easier.

VG offers more to those that do not mind sacrificing some time to reach their goals (i won't call it a grind because if its fun its progression not grinding). Ya some could call it hardcore in comparison to WoW, but as mentioned above this does in fact create a community feel and game world that appeals to many players out there. Is it 6 million+.....probably not. Does Brad need more then 200k subscribers to make this work....not really. I really like some of brad's vision where he is taking things and what he expects out of a game. He wants this to be a niche target audience to avoid watering down the game. To me thats a good thing he is basically saying "hey sure our primary goal is in fact to make money but as long as we can make some money we rather make a game that is a niche game that is made for people that truly enjoy that style of game, I honestly don't think a game to date has had such a devoted and down to earth guy driving the game. Sorry getting off track


Anyways, yep quote me know if you like Vanguard WILL NOT be the _______ killer. You heard it here first!! It does however have the potential of being the nearest thing to an ideal online game for many of us that are looking for a mixture of the fantasy type game that has a very active community and dare I say...isn't for every single casual player out there. Yes WoW had a community.....sadly for most it was a pretty shitty one compared to those built by gaming situations that are found or similar to those in VG. To put in reference to other real life activities.....for anyone that was active in a high stress sports environment or the probably the military the old saying "what doesn't kill us makes us strong" kind of applies. Strong bonds get formed when you have been to hell and back that is forsure and even though the actual act of doing something ingame might be long, hard and just suck ass sometimes it forms those relationships that really make gaming online enjoyable (you don't need to relive nostology or EQ to create this type of community fribur hate to say it)

enter soe and trimonthly (incomplete) expansions for 29.99 a pop

I think I almost agree with each and every point. Our nostalgia goes far beyond the game itself. As you said we are older, everything and everyone has changed, and the majority have other things going on in their lives. I wish we were in Kunark personally... maybe Velious but regardless it's a different world and different strategies.

You can see all of this in music, movies, games, etc. The quality, creativity, and originality is suffering in everyone and no one is making anything for the value but for the quick buck. WoW wasn't made to be the game of the future, they made it to appeal to 6-7 million subs at 14.99 a pop. Movies are all remakes. Music is too. You can't compare anything to the past because of the all mighty dollar. People have seen the cash cow MMORPG's have become so it's not about the new idea of gameplay and community. It's about quick rich victories.

I think this is my first ever rant in lanys history... that felt pretty good.


Take care,
Muli

While I agree with ya mul that is why I am excited about VG. Even with SOE's involvement as publisher the CEO of Sigil has basically said exactly what you sound like you hope for

A game that isn't made to make millions or have millions of subscribers. He can make enough money with a few hundred thousand people playing his game (for a LONG TIME) so he rather focus on the game quality and make sure the niche group of players playing the game play long term. I don't like to get my hopes up but so far I am pretty happy with the development of the game and "the vision".

Part of the reason microsoft left the table with sigil was because they wanted more control in how the game was going to work etc and sigil did a /flip. Hopefully good old brad can keep good on his promise about not letting SOE dicate anything game related.

Great post Neesha, good fun.

i don't think that there is anything that can happen that can recreate the initial experience that most of us experienced in everquest, which has now turned nostalgic for many of us. i know many who have tried to come back and recreate and try to recapture the magic/nostalga of years gone past (myself included) and have been unsuccessful.

i feel that vanguard is going to be a great game. however, it is not going to recreate that initial mmorpg experience that everquest did. it is just going to be a game... a possible and potential good/great game, but a game nevertheless. and if you are trying to recapture those same experiences and feelings that you had when you first played everquest during the infancy years, you are probably not going to be happy. but if you just play it as a game, you might be happy.

let's face it- everquest provided an experience for many people to meet many other people throughout the world. and the server that we were on was very social and interactive so that we all knew of each other for the most part. and since that was really the first time that most of us experienced it... it was special. and we went through the highs and lows, we meet the good people and the bad people, and we enjoyed the experience immensely. all future games (eq2, wowarcraft, vanguard) will give us the ability to meet new people and experience new content. what it won't do, however, is give us the experiences that everquest did. that is why everquest is/was/always will be a special game to many.

of course, i won't be buying vanguard, because my computer cannot run it. but i still think, from what i have seen/heard/read, that it should be a good game for many...

-cc

You guys seriosly think The Burning Crusade was pushed back because of testing issues?

VG release moved to January, Lord of the Rings Online to Feburary.

They intentionally created this lull to hype it that much more. People will be watering at the mouth for it, even more than they already were when it was origionally a month away release.

So now instead of a christmas break grind like everyone origionally planned, they now get a grind that lasts during the Vanguard release, as well as the LotR:O launches. People that have quit will return now that the lull is over and guilds can actually raid shit again.

Sheer fucking brilliance. They had no reason to fear this game, but they are going to attempt to cripple it right out of the gate.

lemme make a comparison. maybe a good one, maybe a dumb one.

you meet someone. you fall in love, you get engaged. you are know planning for a wedding. it is a great experience. you get to the day of the wedding, and it is everything that you have hoped for (and exceeds your expectations). it is a wonderful experience, nothing can compare to this!

a few years go by. you fall out of love with your mate, and vice versa. you decide to get a divorce. you are now back on the market, so to speak. you meet someone else a few years later, fall in love, and get engaged.

now you are planning for another wedding. and even though this new person might be an upgrade, and there might be a lot more things that you like about this person... the experience is different. it is not the same re-creation of what you went through the first time around. the day of the wedding happens, and it just becomes an event. you do it, it might go better than the first one, and then you move on.

your first everquest raid was an experience. your first wowarcraft/eq2/vanguard raid probably was just an event. did not have the same feeling as what you had the first time.

and i think a lot of us want to recreate that experience/feeling, but it just will never happen.

the boston red sox won a world series for the first time in 86 years. that experience, that feeling was utterly special. if the red sox win in '07... would red sox nation have that same feeling as what they had in '04? of course not... this new world series is just an event, not an experience.

maybe bad analogies, but hopefully the point comes across.

-cc

I like what Bzalthek said. I don't play MMORPGs anymore cause its the same old shit..and I am tired of the same old shit. Not only am I tired of the same old shit, I dont like sitting at my computer desk for 12 hours at a time anymore.

I just don't have the time or energy to dedicate to these games. Im a straight up FPS player. I started that way with MPBT and I will probably end that way. Sure.. the kids are dicks but you can at least kill them in an FPS. And <3 being a server admin =). (oh yeah and voice chat is nice.. fuck typing.. typing is stupid)

I was voice chatting in EQ1.

Givin,

Serious question and I am wanting your straight up opinion or anyone else who would like to tout or flame any of these games. With this move by Blizzard do you think it has what none of these others will have to pull off a "win" here. Do you think Vanguard subs will show us and maybe even prove to us that this truly ends up being the game or maybe even LotR's? Or will people just give them tries and come to find out that TBC really out played them and proved to supply a better game? I'm just curious of what you really speculate will come of this scheduled rampage of new MMORPG's. I'm predicting EQ2: EoF to not make a lasting splash. Thinking LotR will be a SWG repeat (i'm hoping now) Vanguard will get it's 150 - 250 k subs mostly station passes and the majority will get hooked on TBC and subs will reach 8-9 million.

I don't want to waste my time on going through anymore MMO's unless some good people really endorse it. I've been reading up on FoH and Triton but you guys are Lanys

Take care,
Muli

vanguard and warcraft cater to two completely different types of players. even though they are both mmorpgs, their clientele is vastly different... as is the type of gameplay (after the immediate basics) that both games offer. vanguard is clearly not going to exceed 1 mill+ in player/user base, because the game does not cater to the type of player who only has an hour or so each day to play a mmorpg.

just because your game has 6+ mill users playing it does not mean it is a better game than others in its genre. easier game, easier to get into, quicker and faster to play, only needing 1 hour per day to make a difference, colorful cartoonish graphics, brand name, and 'trendy title' all could be a reason why a game has more users than others. heck, look at the madden and nfl2k+ titles. madden was always the inferior title; however, it always outsold nfl2k+ titles in bunches. does that make madden the better game? those who played both know that that is not true at all.

of course, a game with 6+ mill users could be just a better game than the others in its genre. that can definitely be a factual statement. but you gotta look at both sides of the spectrum, and realize that quantity of users may not necessarily equate to higher quality of game...

-cc

The buisness has become this.

Turn a profit in X amount of time and move on. That is the exact nitche that Sigil is now geared for with Vanguard. No inovation. Nothing new and exciting. Right now to be a sucess they just have to survive and meet their target point.

LotR:O will be a DDO clone with a differnt license, and thats what Turbine is relying on to make a sale.

Look at whats happened to DDO, it was sold on hype, so many bought into it and it ended up being such a collosal failure, that most of its current playerbase nowadays are only the die hard DDO fanbase. There is nothing new and innovative to offer and attract new players that they cannot get elsewhere at a higher quality.

Blizzard is smart when it comes to buisness now. They know they have the market. They also know they have the hot comodity for the season. While the delay sucks for us as players, no matter how much we cry bitch and complain, we will buy it reguardless of when its released. So it only makes sense to let it come out right on top of any potential competiton you might have, no matter how small and insignifigant. Snuff it out before it even becomes a factor.

My personal opinion of the games coming out is, firstly, you will never ever EVER recreate the origional experiences you had with mmo gaming back then. No community will ever be the same. I do not care what anyone says, it will never happen anywhere. The sooner people get over that fact the happier they will be in whatever game they play.

Second, people need to realize that the majority of people that created that origional community would have zero desire to recreate it in the first place. It makes me laugh when people propose a "Lanys Server Everyone Should Pick". The mmo community far exceeds little old Lanys nowadays, and lets be honest, we all have people we would much rather play with that we have met in other games over those that we might even were guilded with in Everquest. I know I could give a rats ass about a good 95% of Fallen Legacy at this point, and i'm sure they and probably everyone else i've played EQ with reguards me in the same light as well. I could give two shits about Visions and Sigil and RotA. Its all old hat. By now we have all spread out and associated ourselves with different cliques and whatnot. It is from there that people should be making their community, not wishing for a Lanys Reunion Tour. This isn't KISS or The Rolling Stones. Its a bunch of internet acquaintances that simply played the same game together for a length of time.

Games coming out honestly do not excite me for reasons i've mentioned before. Nothing new that I already cant get where I am now in World of Warcraft.

I will mention that I picked up Phantasy Star Universe yesterday and its pretty fun. If you liked Phantasy Star Online you'd like it but you need a controller to play this. A XBOX360 controller will work just fine. The game honestly offers very little to what a lot of mmo gamers consider themselves. This is a time killer and a virtual chatroom, nothing more. The single player is a pretty great story, but just remember, 1 you must have a controller for your PC to play it effectivly, and 2 the options are the most thing overlooked as they are on the first splash screen to choose between offline and online play, not the main title screen in game. A lot of people are missing it.

Anyway, my biggest suggestion to someone in a mmo lull is to either quit them alltogether for a length of time or fine ONE that they really can get into and make their own niche for themselves there. I don't enjoy the WoW lull at the moment so I just don't play. It's not going to get better untill the expansion so why bother. Don't try to substitute another mmo for the one you are currently playing unless you absolutely have no ties to it whatsoever. It's a waste of cash, and in the long run super expensive.

Nice post, Givin.

I would still like to finish up AQ40 and Nax in WoW, but I am realistic and I know this won't happen before the expansion unless we end up doing some sort of joint raids or do some massive recruiting of complete idiots just to fill slots, so I am content in simply doing other things, rather than trying to fill that void. The "lull" has hit Vita harder than Oryx, from my talks with Sola. Of course, we have people in the guild who just want to raid, no matter what, but I am not one of those, as I think it's a waste of time (let's do ZG for the 1293556th time!).

That being said, I cancelled my account (expires on Nov 27), so as of now, they have lost one customer due to their poor handling of the expansion (not that it matters to them). Of course, I will probably buy it again or renew, but for now, I really have zero interest in the game at this point, and the expansion doesn't even remotely appeal to me.

_________________

I used to be like that Neesha.

Wanting to raid whenever and whatever, 20 man or 40 man, i'd even settle for UBRS for a while.

One day I just didn't care anymore. The expansion will no doubt fix most of the problems raiding guilds have right now, as well as compound and create new ones. Why should I worry day in and day out if there is going to be enough people online to go to X zone, only to have it made obsolete a few months down the road.

I grew tired of asking, begging and yelling at people to bring their A games to progression encounters like Twin Emps and Naxxramus when they would just rather ride the easy loot gravy train of Molten Core and Blackwing Lair.

Joint raiding wasn't the answer either. I was honestly embarrased walking into a raid with another guild having the same attendance issues we were, and seeing all their rogues in tier 2.5 / 3 and me with my ZG set, two piece PVP set and mismatched epics from here and there. It was strangely uncomfortable to top them on the DPS meter by 50k or more on mobs like Noth and Maexxna.

Nobody really cares anymore is the problem. And with due reason. There isn't a reason to right now.

Everything we know now will be 10 to 20 man boredom farm zones come expansion. The game is begining again with everyone starting from a level playing field.

On one hand, its exciting. New encounters and whatnot. On the other, its just like going to Nightmare or Hell difficulty. Its the same shit, just a few different drops and differnt abilities on the same old shit.

But it's the best shit there is out there is the problem.

There were communities in games prior to EQ. The biggest difference was scale, and the need for community. Recall the shitlist, it did have an impact on people's play. Not every person on it mind you. For example Miramicha was on it and it was a technically valid shitlisting...yet he was not someone that should be "avoided at all costs" which people realized. I doubt it seriously impacted his gaming, though it probably was an annoyance. Other people who were giant asshats found that being held accountable for their actions impacted their ability to play the game at higher levels. Even when a community like ours gave them multiple chances.

Pretty much every aspect of the game required community, this lessened with some expansions (such as buying and selling became 'easier' with vendors, and required less interaction between individuals). But for the most part, the people you played with had you logging in as much if not more at times than the content.

I'm not saying that's not the case with World of Warcraft, but I certainly didn't feel too shitty about blowing off raids in WoW. I didn't need a community to quest or group really. I could log in and know no one and entertain myself. It's not that you can't make a community which is why people gaming there with EQ people (or Lanys people) have a much stronger sense of community.

They also tend to be more successful in these games because they know how to work and play well together. IMHO. But WoW depends far less on 'community' and interplayer relationships. Again, IMO.



Yes, and no. I'm a gamer from the days of pong. Seriously my dad bought pong (not on release, when it was cheaper later). I had a PC when few did because of the type of work my dad did that allowed him to bring an IBM home. (yaaaay!) So I played Sierra games, such as King's Quest, when they were released. And Atari, and then Nintendo, etc.

Just when you thought things were the absolute best...they got better. Sometimes they got worse. We shall not speak of the blasphemy which is Nintendo 64. Or Dreamcast. Or many other horrors.

But gaming always improved, as technology improved. And technology went forward by leaps and bounds. It's slowed down now, or so it seems. It's not that improvements don't happen, but it's primarily eye candy. Games 'look' better, but there's been nothing too revolutionary in PC gaming. There's new concepts mind you (such as the evolution game, Spore, etc.) And consoles are jumping ahead with Wii's new controller. Which will allow for more gaming innovation.

But MMOs are a little stagnant. It's not that it hasn't gotten better, because many aspects have. In game mail? Very nice. Auction house type set ups? Essential. Questing as it exists in most games now...much better. But it's not revolutionary. It's merely evolution of the same design.

I think a good analogy is a car. Holy shit, a car, wow no carriage for me. And while they've gotten faster and prettier...it's still a car. We keep talking about flying cars...or maybe even teleportation, but the former hasn't happened and the latter won't happen for people probably in our lifetime (if ever). It's kinda like that. There's new and spiffier...but it's still a car.

Doesn't mean that we won't find one that we love more than our first car though. But it won't be the same 'newness'. That doesn't make it impossible to compete with, just that you'll never have that exact feeling. But it has the potential to be even better.

The DS surprised me. Wii is going to blow me away, I know that. Hopefully PC games will have something with that new/amazing factor in the future too



Drama is always entertaining, more so when it's not your drama. EQ's community factor had dynamics which threw people into direct competition and ...well fighting. Our community was better at dealing with these things than many EQ communities (again IMO, but it's also true :p). While there were fights, and drama...there was also a lot of working things out. While I'm not saying WoW isn't competitive, it's not even close to the same thing. Not even with PvP.

But, I also don't think it was a good thing. A game with the dynamic to allow other people the ability to control what you can and cannot access by might tends to suck for the majority of players who aren't in the elite. Granted the elite or higher end guilds will get to do and see more by the sheer factor of what they can accomplish, but that's quite different from a group of people cockblocking your content access.

However, many people liked this aspect of gaming. I didn't.





It's a trap! wasn't this already said?



Much in the same way a virgin tends to think of whatever sex they're getting as fantastic. If you have no basis for comparison, even shitty sex seems fantastic. If you've had really really good sex, well...you'll notice a lousier lay. Doesn't mean you won't take it if there's nothing better, but you'll be thinking about the good sex, and missing it.

I get the feeling for most people WoW is like a dildo. It's better than nothing and can be lots of fun...and you don't have to deal with going out or finding someone else. But few people are satisfied with just that. Okay since most of you are guys, replace 'dildo' with 'your right hand'. Or left for about 10% of you wankers.



This was said twice before! And to stick with my sex analogy because I'm liking it, it's like saying once you've had the best lay of your life...all other sex sucks in comparison. Not true. Or to go with my old gaming analogy...pong was fun, but I don't sit around wishing for the days of pong. Or saying no game can compare to it simply because it was first, and amazing at the time.



Raiding in WoW != raiding in EQ. Retarded monkeys on crack can (and do) raid most content in WoW. Granted we had some easily raidable content in EQ too especially as time went on and shit got dumbed down. But seriously...do you remember the early days of plane of fear? Do you remember CR that took days. Someone pulling a Leroy Jenkins would have been shitlisted and people would have fantasized about traveling back in time with a coat hanger and visiting his mom.

I'm not saying I want the old days of CRs that took freakin' days. Or long long long hours. It sucked balls. But risk v. reward meant something.

In WoW really with most raids, what's required other than the right classes showing up. (I said *most* raids )



Yeah I think I'm going to forget getting a Wii and just ask my dad if he still has the old pong machine. Because really, that's what gaming is all about. Old school, biatches!!!1111

Or not. I want a wii. Someone go wait in line for me.

_________________

Truer words have never been spoken.

Half the addictive allure of EQ WAS the fact that on a bad day you COULD lose your corpse with all your shit on it. Hell, for the first year after release, you could /consent someone and face the risk of loosing all your plat. That sucked balls when you were lvl 20 and only have a few hundred PP to your name...

or running across the Karanas and falling asleep and not having a clue where your body was and you were back at bind when you woke up...

Even if a player DID ruin thier rep in WoW, they could just recreate thier level 60 in a matter of a couple weeks or less, depending on how hard they wanted to grind. Unlike everquest where without a power leveling service, it would take a long ass time to get back to max level again.