Anyone out here use any of the online law information websites? Or can direct me to a link that either they have used/had family/friends that used/highly recommended? In a situation with a business and just looking to see what rights (if any) I have.

I did go to the Better Business Bureau, but not sure if they can help with my situation. They listed some stipulations and mine kinda/somewhat falls under one of the categories. Not 100% but it could be perceived as such.

Or if there is anyone familiar with business law, and wants to help out with some basic questions, please PM me.

I did some google/search stuff and found hundreds and thousands of stuff. Was hoping to get some advice to narrow it down to just a couple popular/recommended ones.

Thanks in advance.

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www.lanysboard.com/tarot

The search engine is knowledgeable, however has a problem with "concise". Tends to give too much irrelevant anecdotal information, but is generally helpful.

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LOL

If you're the consumer in this situation you'll want to look up consumer rights. And it's a very wide field depending on the business you're dealing with. A consumer has unique rights (for example) when buying a car, versus...buying shit at Wal-Mart, versus dealing with contractors. And your state may also have unique protections as well.

Most states have a consumer affairs department, that might be where to start looking. Or just state the jist of your problem (and where you're at/where they're at).

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We warned you not to go into business with Worthy.

Are you having problems with Worthy's Nigerian partners?

No it has nothing to do with anything Worthy is associated with.

Basically the basics- I was getting a little bit behind on monthly payments I make on a personal loan. I was told via phone call to a employee around at month ago at their service/collections area that if I pay 'x' amount by 'y' date then I can forgo payment the next month and resume payments the month after. The forgone payment will be added at the end of the loan so instead of ending in August, it ends in September... or whatever month it is. I stated I would be making payment online, asked if that would suffice. She said as long as it was by 3pm EST on the date in question, I would be fine. I paid it around 11:30am EST on the day prior to 'y' date. Never heard from them again.

Few days ago started getting the calls. They tell me I never made my current payment (the one I was under the impression was skipped/forgone), account is behind, etc. I communicated the phone call I had from a month ago, what we discussed, the extension of loan payment, the cancellation of this month's payment, etc etc. According to them, they have no record of this conversation. Every decision I have made in the past month has been with the knowledge that I did not have to allocate finances for payment this month, and am thus not able to make a payment until the next one is due which is around 3 weeks away. They are charging me a late fee, I continually get the 5-8 harassing calls per day demanding I make a payment now (even though I have stated the exact date when I will pay), and have stated that if I do not make two payments by that day I will continue to receive late fees. I have spoken to at least 6 different people and also heard differing stories from them- one person says one thing, another says the opposite. Every facet of the situation- one day it is this, the next day it is that. I have completely lost faith and confidence and honesty in this company (which is a highly well known financial institution) because not only have they changed their story every day with different people... but I am being led to find out that the initial conversation with the initial woman- she gave false information, was not factual, lied to me, and has put me in this predicament.

I don't want to go into further detail for obvious reasons. But basically I have been lied to by this company, I have based my decisions on what was initially communicated to me which is now having negative trickle down effects. I don't want to hurt my credit rating... but I just honestly feel I have done nothing wrong. I was lied to, and yet cannot prove it. The only thing I can do is submit from my phone company the time and length of a call to prove that I indeed had a phone call with their company on this time and this date.

I really just want to get the late fee removed, and be able to miss one month and have that extended onto the end of the loan. Unfortunately they are threatening my credit rating/score, and their overall demeanor and attitude has been poor at best. I admit I am part of that blame because I am beyond furious and have been condenscending to them... but it is purely out of the fact that I feel I have been lied to and they are not willing to admit wrongdoing on their part.

Sorry for the length.

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Obligatory, 'get everything in writing' statement.

But realistically, doesn't sound like you have a leg to stand on.

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

Any time you speak to anyone regarding a situation like this, it is best to take notes on who you're talking to and what they said. Then when something like this happens, you know who said what and can back up your story with names, times, and dates.

As far as your situation, I would say you're screwed. Maybe you can convince them to take EQ platinum from your super level 85 mage in payment since you spend your free time doing that rather than grab a little extra work somewhere so you can actually pay your bills on time.

Cue up comments from the "better people"

Indeed.

Generally speaking, if you didn't get it in writing, the deal "never happened" as far as they are concerned. While verbal contracts may be considered binding in most places, chances are you won't get anywhere beyond hiring a lawyer and suing them.

Unless you took detailed notes (time of call, length of call, agent you spoke with, their agent ID if they have one, the exact terms of the agreement, etc) -- good luck. i've been screwed in a fashion like this before. I ended up having to take the hit to my credit rating.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

I worked in collections.

You're dealing with first tier people, they work on an automatic dialer and are fucking monkeys. Sorry to any monkeys who do that job, but you ARE a goddamned monkey. They often forget to notate the account accurately. They also tend to violate the law QUITE A BIT.

But in defense of them they're often paid little and have quotas to meet.

Okay, so your problem. Here's your real problem, you have defaulted on the terms of the loan. Legally, they can demand payment in full. Fortunately for you, no one does this. But understand that the minute you miss a payment YOU FAILED TO LIVE UP TO THE CONTRACT and that pretty much allows for them to fuck you up the ass. Many loans have penalties written in, like upping your interest rate to 'omg I'm being raped' rates. Late fees and penalties are ridiculous.

Reality, they don't do diddly shit until the loan is about 4 months in arrears. Then then start evaluating you for legal action. It may be faster now with the economy being shit.

You have a poor basis for negotiation; you have a job that can be garnished. You apparently care about your credit (they're already reporting it late, I guarantee you...so you have 2 lates on your credit now, ignore the other bullshit they say, they're monkeys).

What you want to do is ignore the auto-dialer people. Try to speak to someone in management. Try to call someone from your end about the debt. They will not give a shit what promises you've made. They will not make future promises either. They will not make ANY deal that doesn't involve MONEY TODAY. No money today? No deal today.

What you want to do is tell them to stop calling you (they have to). You can tell them you work from home and this is impacting work. You have to send in writing for them to stop calling a home number, so either tell them it's a cell phone or it's a home phone but you also work from home, etc. They are NOT allowed to mess with your employment.

That will stop the calls. It will not stop the problems. You're not going to get your 'old deal'. So this time record the call (tell them you're doing so or it may be illegal in your state) and ask for a single payment to bring you current, and everything else added to the loan. They CAN do that. Whether or not they WILL do that...depends. Depends on who you talk to and what their authorization is for deals, and what they feel like doing.

Unfortunately you have zero evidence of your previous 'deal' and so it reverts to what there IS evidence for...the loan as is.

Hope that helps, sorry you're stuck. =\ Also get over the outrage of being lied to, etc. I'm sure you don't want to deal with some jackass employee's faux outrage of how YOU defaulted. The rest of the company isn't to blame for that dipshit not noting the account.

You CAN try to take it higher up the food chain. Had you done that with my finance company and gotten to a manager, odds are high we'd have just brought you one payment current. We would not have waived the fees though, that's your responsibility. We would have tacked it on to the life of the loan. HTH

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Oh one more thing, about anything you claim happened prior, the assumption is you're a lying liar who lies. Sorry...I made that assumption of EVERY client I worked with, because you have to. I've had women sobbing that their children had no shoes! NO SHOOOOOOES!!!1111 while I glanced through their credit reports noting that they just spent $750 at Nordstroms, which they were current with.

LYING LIARS WHO LIE!!!!

So even though I do believe you here, that's the assumption. Also, writing anything on a check does no good, it merely shows your state of mind. Contracts requires a meeting of the minds, and oral agreements while binding, when disputed (because they're not worth the paper they're written on huk huk!), validation almost always goes back to...the original written contract.

Which places you at fault.

Sucks. I know. First tier collection people suck balls. Later tiers are generally better, though you'll always have assholes to wade through. I looked at it as a mutual problem we needed to resolve. If they wanted to work with me, we'd find some solution. If not...well they'd generally call a few days later happy to get much less of a deal.

Shitty job, and an industry that's booming atm, I hope I never am so desperate to have to work in it again. Though it pays very well.

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The Almighty Xantheus, Master of Nickels and Dimes, has never fallen behind on a payment, ever, because he grows a money tree right out of his vagina.

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I think Xantheus was showing his kinder, gentler side in this thread.

Or his website, Bad-Dragon.com...

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Larreth Wolfsong (long retired)
Lanys T'vyl, Everquest

Zinky, Lvl 60 Warlock
Thunderhorn, WoW

Your details are a bit too vague to give good advice. If this is a collection agency or this has been put on your credit, I would give a wholly different opinion.

If this is a reputable bank or credit agency, you should be able to talk to someone in customer support and get current statement of the account. Then, ask what it takes to make the account current. Lastly, beg for help to adjust the terms if you cannot make it current.

You really have absolutely no other choice. Most legitimate agencies will forgive your first late fee. If you've been late multiple times, you are going to have trouble. Otherwise, if you beg and plead and ask for a specific payment amount to get current, you should have some luck.

Thanks to those who gave sound advice. I will be honest- I am beyond pissed off and mad at them for what I feel they did. But at the same time, I do realize that I made a couple small financial decisions that directly caused me to be in this predicament. I was merely looking for some help, they offered it, I fulfilled it... only to have them reneg on it.

The thing is- right now, I have only missed one payment. It is only 7 days late. Nothing (to my knowledge, they even told me this- although they have also lied about many other things too) has been reported to the credit bureau. I was told by multiple people (including management/supervisor) that it *will* be reported at 30 days late. When I make my payment to them, it will have been 26 days late at that point. So theoretically, I will not be reported.

And if I am, I will have to fight that. Because I would think that is breaking some sort of law or business practice or something.

And it is not a collections agency- just a financial institution (a major one, you all know them) that I got a loan from. I have paid on time, every month, for the past 20 months or so... or thereabouts. Just had a small issue with this past month due to some unforseen financial issues that arose that caused me to reallocate funds from other areas to pay off other things.

I guess it is just a shame that after all the good stuff I have done, one (in my mind) minor thing has tumbled into a major issue with the institution. I know someone who got a DUI- 0.084 against a legal limit of 0.080. Just BARELY over. And yet they had to do jail time, have a breathalyzer on their car for a year, take rehab classes, etc etc etc... all in the same group of people who tested 0.18, 0.22, 0.21 for the THIRD time, etc etc. It seems like government and business wants to lump everyone into one specific category, when there is obviously a difference between someone who is 0.22 who drinks and drives three nights out of every week... and someone who had a drink or two at a restaurant, drinks/drives maybe once every 4 months (and even then it is just a drink or two) and gets caught at 0.084. Maybe I am biased cause I know the person, but I just can't see how those two are equal situations.

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I commend you for not taking the bait cicely, best of luck.

Okay, let me put it to you this way...you work retail. Ever have customers lie to you? Ever have customers rant and rave that some employee promised them some RIDICULOUS deal? I worked at a stereo store in high school and had customers do that shit I'd be shocked if you've never seen it.

Do you honor ridiculous deals? No. I'm sure you don't.

I can almost guarantee you that they will not honor what was promised. I can tell you that I prep'd accounts for legal action and had unbelievable power to do whatever deal I wanted, including forgiveness of the debt (though I'd best be able to back my ass up on it ). I can tell you that NO ONE would ever be authorized to have you skip a future payment.

No way, no how.

Bring you current and not make you fork up the cash for missed payments? Surely. Tack it on to the loan. Same with late fees (which will not be forgiven once it's at the point of collections). Late fees may be forgiven if you're slightly late well before it's at the collection level.

So, since no one would EVER be authorized to offer you that deal, they have 2 options:

1) Assume you're a liar like every other person who doesn't pay their bills as they should...and that's how they view you. You're no longer a 'valued customer' you're a pain in the ass who doesn't pay on time. Sorry, but that's what you're regulated to once they have to collect from you.

2) Assume some idiot employee may have misspoken to some degree, but it's still your problem because you know the terms of your contract and you cannot renegotiate it to that level without resigning documents or speaking to someone higher in the food chain, which you should know.

So, get over your righteous indignation. Seriously. They don't care. And quite frankly it makes them less likely to do ANYTHING with you.

If I had your account (which I wouldn't have unless you were 4 mos behind) and saw that shit on it, and you have a job...I'd be verifying your employment, then demanding PIF...that's payment in full...of the loan. Why? I wouldn't want to DEAL WITH YOU, you're a pain in the ass. You're not worth the money we'd have to spend constantly dealing with you. And since you broke the terms of the loan, and you care about your credit and more importantly...you have a job I could garnish...I'd demand you pay in full.

And I'd give you three days to pony up the cash. Potentially extending that a week if you had me talk to relatives who SWORE they were scraping it together for you, and you were making good faith attempts (like half the balance)

Otherwise, fuck it...we'll see you in court. It's just easier.

That's their end, take it for what you will, but being a pissy customer doesn't work if they view you as a bad customer. And while you're 'only 7 days late' atm...you're a chronic non-payer to them. =\




You were behind before, hence this deal. They were collecting it then, I guarantee you that they reported it then. And once you went 3 days late on this, given your previous failure to pay...they probably reported it. You'd have to request a copy of your credit report to see.

And whatever is reported stays reported. They cannot remove it, it would be fraud. After all...you ARE late. So if anyone gives you any bullshit about removing it off your credit report, they're a liar.

They're also pulling your credit report, which ...is a bad ding. Sorry.



No it's not. I didn't handle reporting to the credit bureau, but you can't claim the contract was redone in good faith if the employee had no ability to bargain on behalf of the company. You also have no evidence they ever did. It's your word against theirs, contract prevails. Good luck!



Makes me wonder if it's the one I used to work for, though I wouldn't say who I worked for.



You keep thinking you're a good customer.

YOU ARE NOT.

I had to deal with that shit before. I understand why you think that. I dealt with people who had had many loans through my lender, who had been good customers. And then they expected that was worth something when they defaulted.

It's business. It's all about today. They're not dealing with loan officers or branch managers...they're dealing with the collections division and believe me the company has this attitude (and this was before the economic crisis, I'm sure it's moreso now)

WE DO NOT WANT YOU AS A CLIENT.

It's all bad paper, even if we bring you current, even if we do business with you down the road again (which the company might)...you're a 'bad' customer if you're not paying the bill.

I'm assuming your loan is a signature loan with high interest. That's from a B-C lender. It's high risk paper. We knew the percentage of default, which is why the interest is so high and they're term loans. It's also why the collections are aggressive, they're high risk loans and once someone starts dicking around with payment...the odds of them defaulting are high.

And once a company has to chase after you for money, they're losing money on you. It costs money to chase people down and get them to pay. So no they're not going to talk nicely to you, treat you like a valued customer and bend over backwards to appease you. You don't have a good foundation for demanding jack shit.

They do. Frankly they have all the power, because they can fuck your credit, and demand payment in full of the loan. They can probably enact some draconian penalties that they're not atm too, such as capping the rate. (Usually only done if it's in the contract, when a judgement is sought).

You DO have rights under the FDCPA (fair debts collections practices act, IIRC)...and consumers have lots of rights.

But on this issue...really not so much. If you call the branch you got the loan from (assuming it wasn't a mail in signature loan) they won't really care too much and they'll kiss you back to the dept. dealing with it.

Your best bet is to talk to someone in management there. DO NOT ACT LIKE AN ENTITLED ASSHOLE. Seriously that will piss them off like you wouldn't believe and you've probably done lots of damage already. Calmly explain your situation and hope that they will be in a good mood and work it out for you. Be gracious, polite, and try to be super friendly. Saying stuff like, 'Look...I'm sure you hear this all the time...I'm sure people say things untrue, but really...blah blah blah'.

And you *might* stand a chance.

Also just two additional tips for people dealing with collections, as hey times are tough. First...never ever lie. IF YOU LIE you'd better fucking remember it. Most of them write notes on the account and once you're branded a liar...the deals you will get will be much worse. You'll get no sympathy. You simply won't be believed even if you say the sky is blue.

Second, be polite. It can be hard, esp. when some of the collectors ARE complete pricks...but being polite goes a long way. Winning an argument over the phone is worthless if it costs you RL money.

Again, hope that helps. But you HAVE to get past the 'but they told me and I'm entitled...' thing. It simply doesn't matter because you cannot prove it and they will NEVER believe you. Sorry. =\

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The whole spiel here would be great, except for one problem: the deal isn't really that ridiculous, or uncommon.

Many loan companies will allow someone to defer a payment once, sometimes even twice if they're falling behind, as long as you have a good payment history. You pay a small fee and the loan's end date is pushed back one month as they skip the current month. I had to do so once on a car payment when things got tight.

I'm not sure where you've worked at before, Tarot, but what you're saying is blatantly incorrect. This is a common practice.

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That is only a common practice in car loans, or loans where there is some form of collateral they can take.

Credit cards and signature loans/lines of credit don't typically have those provisions.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

I've gotten behind on shit, especially right after my first wife and I split up, but I worked from 6 AM until most days 9 at night and midnight on the weekends to make my payments rather than ask on a message board if there's anything I can legally do when I didn't pay my bills.

Don't air stupid mistakes on the internet and expect people to not call you a moron.

First dont stress. You only at the harrassing call stage. It takes months before it gets to the next level which should be plenty of time to get current.

Absolutely do not ever give them electronic access to your bank account for payment though because as Tarot said the loan is tecnically defaulted and they can drain every penny out of your account for payment if they get access.

The account is not defaulted. They can't even report it as delinquent until it is 30 days past due except internally which means absolutely nothing except in regards to future dealings with that company. Still, it's wise to not given them electronic access to the account. Without a judgment or your permission they're not allowed to withdraw money from the account, but it's a lot easier to prevent them getting the money in the first place than it is to get the money returned.

What I'm getting at is that it's not unheard of. Tarot's post makes it sound completely implausible.

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They have the banking info. anyway from the checks, and we could only drain the accounts when we had a judgment, IIRC...but yes we did hit bank accounts.

Tyral...if you're in GOOD STANDING currently on the loan, there may be a possibility...and I mean like a freakin' unicorn of an exception....that they would say 'Okay, go ahead and miss a payment and we'll tack it on'.

My lender would have absolutely refused. You would have gotten a LATE on your credit report, you would have gotten charged late fees/paid the late fee...but you could skip a payment by being brought current the following month with one payment, that's a common negotiation. But they DO NOT EVER say 'Okay go ahead and skip future payments.'

It not only was never done, there was no way anyone outside our dept. could adjust for it without rewriting the loan.

And I'm talking unsecured loans specifically. Car loans, loans with item attachments are very different because they do NOT want to repo your shit. But more importantly YOU do not want them to repo your shit, so there's more wiggle room both sides.

A signature loan is unsecured. The only way you're getting ANY money with a judgment is attaching wages, attaching liens and cleaning out bank accounts. Other asset seizure is so difficult we never did it (cars, etc.). Which isn't to say there's not a unicorn case out there where we took someone's 3 cars...it would simply be extremely rare. Most of the time it was purely wage garnishment and liens, in states where we could. And fubaring someone's credit.

Alot of people also had misinformation about making deals to pay off the loan for less the the full amount (something all creditors do). The consumer would mistakenly believe that something was better than nothing. That's not quite true. At a certain point (and we never knew the exact number, I doubt it has an exact number, because it's also number of loans)...it is better for us to simply write off the loan as a loss, and get a judgment in the hopes that eventually you'll come into something...and we did renew judgments. But it depended on situation too. I mean if you're fucking 80 years old with nothing...yeah you can probably settle for a lot less than the 25 year old who has a union job and owns his home.

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Blockbuster had my debit card info from purchases...one time I had some DVD's that were really late so they just - without warning - debited the full purchase price of the DVD's from my bank account. Just up and ganked over $90 out of the blue. Which of course caused other overdraft issues and such that month.

It sucked. =/

Cicely,

1. Almost nobody will report a 30 day delinquency to a credit agency. It is too risky for the reporter if they made an error. Usually it takes a 60 (or more) delinquency.

2. You're only 7 days behind... if you absolutely cannot pay, call and tell them - try to work something out. If this is a major institution, like Citi, they are not going to intentionally lie.

I'm not saying you're lying, but your facts don't add up. Unless you're dealing with some shitty 3rd party collector, they aren't going to try to scam you. Your $150 or whatever is not worth their effort.

Beyond that, nobody here can give you decent advice because it depends on the dollar amounts we're talking about. If this is a $80 payment, do something to get it out of the way. If it is a big payment, it's a different story. If you have 3 more years left and owe $5000, it's a different story than if you have 5 months left and owe $1500.

And, it depends on what your credit is like and what your other cashflows look like. Without that info, everyone is mostly pissing in the wind.

In short, if I had good credit, felt semi-screwed over, and needed to make a reasonably small payment while swallowing some pride - I would do it. If I already had crappy credit or knew making the payment would kill me, I would go to a credit counseling service and work on getting my financial life straight. That of course is just a gross generalization without specifics.

Would either getting behind on your shit or splitting up with your first wife qualify as a stupid mistake then?

For the longest time they wouldn't let me use my debit card for the gamepass deal for that very reason. They just said the had a policy that didn't allow them to be used.

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Marauder Harabakc Goat

One reason Glen Beck is not totally bad to listen to. He does have a lot of good advice on situations just like this.