Spare me the "god your stupid" bullshit please, I assure you I learned my lesson and will never give people the benifit of the fucking doubt again in my life.

That being said...I was renting a room out in my house to a girl. I didn't have a lease (no comment...) and she gave me a 2 day notice (texted me it) and left. In the text she states the rent check will be on the counter (she was a month behind because of school loans not coming in, so I was being nice and let her slide a month). She left the check, I went to cash it about a week later.

Later on I get a messege from my bank that the check had a stop payment placed on it...stupid $@#@$ tried to screw me over and not even pay the months of rent she had already owed me.

I discussed it with a family member that is a clerk of court and went over my options and unfortunately only chance of getting thing from her is small claims court.

Problem is...I don't know what her new address is. I need this basically to serve her to start the small claims court process, (i can get a process server but that can get expensive AND if defaults on the case and doesn't pay it I end up eating that cost as well). I have her cell phone number, I have a piece of mail actually confirming her address change but doesn't state what the new address is, and I have her old checks. Aside from that nothing to really track her down by.

Any suggestions? I tried to get the postal office to provide the new address but they wouldn't. I checked in whitepages and got 4 potential addresses but no clue if those are old or new or even the right person.

Any thoughts on how I might go about finding her address legally or illegally would be greatly appreciated. While I was stupid as fuck to not have a signed lease I have enough evidence and witness testimony to make me feel confident enough in court, so my only hold up is finding her god damn address. Thanks for any help and don't worry I already made the new and existing roomate sign a contract and provide an additional deposit to cover if they leave without a 1 month notice...lesson learned. But I want to get this bitch back because I gave her so many god damn breaks I just can't believe some people are this fucking pieces of shit (she was a black lesibian girl (found out after the fact) that basically had her lover live in without my permission and kept my other roomate up all night with, and I quote, "crazy lesbian sex that had to be fake because no one gets that happy that long".)

Only good news is when I get my check from jerry springer after I get on tv for this crap...

You have a check, yes? Or can get a copy from your bank? That check has her banking information. It should also have some personally identifiable information. You have the internet. C'mon man, use some sense!

I used to do skip tracing, it's fun shit.

It's very easy to get her new address. You have her phone number.

You can hire someone to do it, or you can have a friend do it. I'm almost loathe to post this shit publically because there's bad uses for it...but I'm sure such people could easily find out how to do such things online it's not hard or anything.

Anyway, just use yer brain. Why would someone give an address over the phone? Simple...to get something. You have a TON of information about her I'm sure, stuff you don't even know you know which gives you a huge huge advantage.

If you know places she formerly spent money, if you know what type of car she drives, if you know about her personal habits it gets even easier. She's hard up for money. So have an older female friend (someone who is VERY fast on their feet with their with and their mouth, preferably someone who's worked in some form of CSR before) call her up.

Claim to be some bullshit company who either has a refund check for her, or a rebate for her.

That's the easiest way, get it out of her.

There's harder ways to do it which are quasi-legal...such as calling companies she does actually do business with and demanding to know if the address was changed. Claim someone is stalking you and that YOU did NOT put in the address change, and then demand to know what address your shit is being sent to now.

Lots of various ways.

Also, if it turns out that you need a landline phone number and you have an address, here's my favorite trick. I came up with this shit myself. You call the local pizza delivery place and complain you placed an order previously, the pizza was complete shit, you're supposed to get a free pizza when you called and bitched with the manager, and be a bitch (works best when a woman does it) to staff, and turn on the sex with the male manager or male employee you get handed off to.

Most of the time when confirming your info, you can get what phone number they have listed for 'your' address. I always claimed to not know my own fucking phone number because 'hey, how often do I call myself'.

Hope that helps, it really won't be hard to get at all.

You also need to get her place of employment since you'll have to garner her wages to get payment. Save that check, you'll need her bank info too since you can also essentially clean out her bank acct to collect a judgement.

Ah good times, good times.

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sorry can't say I have ever tried to track down some ones address with her banking info or name. Address on the checks is old.

If you have any specific examples I would love to hear them (or pm me).

Thanks tarot! I had a few "ideas" on how to get it by less then honest means, was just hoping there was a more direct way to get it. God I wish she wasn't a girl so I could go curb stomp her ass and get my $550 worth out of her.

It would be funny as hell if I did the pizza thing and got her lesbian lover who works at not 1 but 2 pizza places.

Oh I was just checking the thread to read responses and I recalled the other common way I'd get addresses when I only had a phone number.

I'd call and say that we were sending out a copy of the local newspaper for free in the areas for eight weeks with no obligation. It would terminate at the end of eight weeks we only asked that they'd fill out a card at the end giving a review, and they'd be entered to win a Trip for Two to Paris (or some other not unbelievable prize). If they said they weren't interested I'd play the sympathy ploy of 'hey look you don't even have to read it, they're not going to bill you or anything and you get entered for the trip. I'm new and REALLY can use the numbers'.

Never had it fail.

Best yet if they already get the paper, you simply ask for their address so that your boss can verify their current subscription, remove them from the calling list etc.

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Time = Money. Is it worth your time to pursue 500 bucks?

No lease? No agreement? What if you don't win your small claims case?

Are you doing this for the money or just cause she pissed you off? If you are doing it cause she pissed you off - maybe an hour spent fishing would be a better use of your time.

Money comes and goes, time is precious. Don't waste your time on pettiness. If you do, then you got screwed 2x.

There's my zen advice =P

Combination honestly, im not a fan of letting people get away with this type of crap plus I'm not well off enough $550 is pocket change or anything, plus I let my other roomate slide 2 months on rent because she lost her job so daddy could use the money! (missing 1500 from my planned budget isn't exactly a good thing).

So unless master zen wants to send me some bling bling he needs to keep his yapper closed!

Master Zen would be going for every nickle and dime, don't worry. Sorry this happened to you. Sometimes being nice can bite you in the ass.

Next time, get a lease agreement.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

Problem is a lease agreement wouldn't prevent this, just make it easier to reclaim in court. But yes....already wrote one up for my current roomate.

best of luck, next time get a deposit up front for possible damages + last months rent, they'll be sure to stick around then.

Yeah, that's the standard and this thread illustrates why. You are going to have a hell of a time winning your $550 back though without a lease agreement in court. Good luck, sucks you got shit on for being nice.

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Not really. Oral agreements are contracts too. No judge buys the 'and it was okay if I paid rent when I felt like it'. He has previous checks to demonstrate that rent was being paid.

As much as I hate to admit it, People's Court and Judge Judy are actually pretty good here giving people a general idea of the low end of civil court (small claims). The basis for judgement is weight of evidence. Meaning if I'm 51% more credible with my account and evidence, I win. There may be a burden upon me to demonstrate certain facts of the case...but here's how it will play out.

He can prove she was obligated to pay rent: Hello checks.
She must prove she paid rent at times he claims she didn't. If she claims she paid cash, when all the other times she paid in check, it won't be believed. It's not credible, unless she can show an ATM withdrawl on the right date for the exact amount...and even then it may not be credible (but it's more believable then).

So if she can't prove she paid those days, odds are VERY high it will be found she owes those days.

Since there was no lease agreement, the notice required to quit depends on the laws of that state. Generally (and I'm going off memory and I do NOT know the laws of other states usually so don't take this as gospel please) it reverts to a month to month lease. So they have to give 30 days WRITTEN notice.

Obviously she didn't. She can't produce a scrap of paper countersigned on her end to demonstrate that. So she'll owe an additional month for not giving proper notice.

And all fees associated with the stopped check. Any damage to the place that she caused (but he would have to prove it, it's generally not the easiest thing to prove esp. if no deposit was required. Normal cleaning isn't really something you can go after, wear and tear is expected in the normal course and you do not want to look like you're bullshitting up fees) along with receipts to show he paid for any needed repairs/cleaning. Photos are nice too. And all court costs, EXCEPT any lost wages involved in case prep. (You can sue for any lost wages as a result of the wronged action. Such as 'they left, and broke shit and I had to take a day off work to get the locks changed' if you can prove that).

So he'll get the judgment. Collecting it then becomes the bitch. How you can collect it depends on the laws in your state. You can also hire an agency to collect, or sell the 'debt' (good luck there no real market for single paper like that)...but she will not be able to buy a car or home or a lot of other things with a current judgment on her credit.

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And that's what I'm talking about - so now you have the tracking down time, the court time, and the time to try to collect.. it's a whole lot of time and chances are, in the end, you aren't going to get any money anyway (if you do win) - and if you do, what does it come out to per hour of your time?

So, what's the point? I would rather take the loss on the 500 bucks and move on with my life. So I got had. 500 dollar lesson in character judgment. Go fishing.

Couple of reasons.

First...your personal time != value of work time. And that's a REALLY important financial thing to learn.

Many people think (wrongly) about situations like this: I will hire someone to do X. Let's say paint the kitchen. It will only cost you $500. Let's assume $500 really isn't all that much money to you. Let's assume you make about $50 an hour, which isn't unrealistic for most people. So you assume, well all the time I'd spend buying the supplies, taping off the room, clearing out the room, prepping the walls, doing the actual work...there's probably about 10 hours there AT LEAST. Plus that $500 covers the paint and the painter's supplies, so hey...you're even saving money.

But you're not. The supplies would probably cost you less than $100. And you make $0.00 an hour for your free time. It's time you'd spend not earning a dime, so you're not 'saving' a thing.

Same difference here. You cannot value your time that you'd spend working on this as 'work time'. It's simply not. Otherwise I can sit here and imagine a cruise, and then tell my husband I just saved him $15,000 because we're not taking this really awesome 2 week cruise I just thought about! Hell, I just saved us another $20,000 because I'm not going to rip down our new patio and put in the sunroom I was daydreaming about earlier today.

Day isn't even over, and I've "made" $35,000 by saving money!

Lots of people think that way...well not THAT way, but they misvalue their time, and piss away money.

So all time spent on preparing for this doesn't count. It's time he'd have spent on leisure which while valuable to us personally...has no monetary value in that sense...and we spend it on 'personal' work anyway, such as paying bills, taking items in for repair, blah blah blah. It's the cost of living in most respects.

And realistically, the amount of time he'd spend on it is very minimal. I know it would take me probably less than two hours total, including filling out paperwork.

The only real time loss is the court appearance. You're out half a day of "work", if not a full day. And that you cannot recoup when getting 'costs'. The court views it the same as the other shit, the cost of life.

But again, you're not out $500. He's not even out a dollar, because he'll probably use a vacation day. Or if you're like me, and have a job where you can do it, arrange hours so you can take off 5 hours during the week without sacrificing the leave bank.

Regardless no real loss there.

Getting your money. Depends on what state he lives in. If he lives in a state where you can garner wages (and that's most states) he can file garnishment papers, and they'll take the money right out of her paycheck. It's not even hard to do, once you have a judgement. Many people DON'T do this because they're not sure how. Or they're lazy. Hell most people are lazy and blow off even more money than the $500.

Now, I'm not saying HE MUST GET THAT MONEY. I'm not even saying he should. That's pretty much a personal decision and there's a lot of factors.

But "it will cost too much" isn't one of those factors.

And the majority of the time when people make an issue of these things, it's not the money, it's the principle. At least to them. A lot of people do not feel okay with letting someone fuck them over. It will bother them for a long time that someone ill used them in such a fashion, fucked them over, and went on their merry way. In those cases, taking less than an hour out of their day (assuming they have all the info they need it's extremely quick) and filing then showing up (which can also take less than an hour depending on the court involved. Where I live it would pretty much consume a morning or afternoon) is WELL worth it.

Chalking it up as an expensive lesson? No need to do that at all.

Again, I'm completely okay with people deciding to walk away from it. I have myself in situations where more than $500 was involved. But I think it's important to make that decision for good reasons. (Not worth getting upset CAN be a good reason, as long as the person isn't being a doormat).

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WWJD?

And look what happened to him!

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A simple way that will take a few days:

Send her a piece of *first class* mail and indicate "Return Service Requested" on the outside of the envelope. If they guy at the USPS is doing his job, he'll mark the envelope as undeliverable, and put a sticker with her new address on the envelope, and have it routed back to you.

By default, first-class mail is forwarded through to a new address. However, many businesses for various reasons want their mail returned to them if it is not deliverable to the address of record. The USPS's way of taking care of that is through the "Return Service Requested" functionality.

Huge caveat: just because you request return service, doesn't mean the USPS dude/chick will notice it, and it may get sent through to her at her new address. So it isn't 100% fool-proof.

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Hope is the new black.

I'll agree some of the effort can be done on your personal time, but last I knew, courts are in session from 10am to 3pm roughly M-F. Pretty sure that won't be on personal time unless the claimant works third shift. What kind of turn around time does SCC carry with it as well, ie if you put forth a claim do you get a date the next week, month, 2-3 months etc ...

Factor in all that shit and the 5 bills starts losing value faster and faster imo. In the long run, its a cheap "life lesson" and in sharing it, perhaps you've saved others from falling prey to the same situation.

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Even if you have to pay more money from your own pocket, it's worth it just to get her in trouble and fuck her credit.

I agree with this.

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

If any of this is a repeat, sorry, didn't read the whole thread.

Isn't writing a bad check a criminal offense? I sold books door to door in college once (yeah, it sucks) and if someone bounced a check on me, I just submitted it to the DA. This was in Arkansas, laws may differ. I can't remember specifically, that was 12 years ago.

One other thing: you can't get blood from a turnip. If you go to all this trouble and get a claim, are you ever goign to get get money? If she doesn't have shit, she doesn't have shit.

She didn't bounce it, she stopped payment on it. That might also be fraud, but generally speaking you'll be told to deal with it in civil court first (then you can submit to the criminal court through the police or DA's office). Anything found in civil court is admissible.

But they rarely file on that shit truthfully. At least out here. They have to have to have done it to businesses (and while it's a business transcation it's not a business really) or have multiple bad check offenses and shit.

BUT Southern CA can suck. I had an instance where police refused to file criminal charges on what was a clear crime. They told me to resolve it in civil court because after reviewing tapes...turns out I knew the thief. But that city is notoriously lazy and incompetent, and I was young and they felt like they could bully me off. And unfortunately they were right.

Maybe if you live in Mayberry where nothing fucking happens they're no so busy and asshatty.

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I know that in Ohio, Arkansas, and I'm guessing most states - a stop payment is the same as a bounce. That is, go to the grocery store, write a check and stop payment. That's theft as far as I know.

Funny story, my grandma was visiting cousins in Texas and one of them got arrested for writing bad checks. Ultimately, I think it depends on who you've pissed off

Of course, I have no idea how CA works.

You all know there was a huge thing with Student Loan checks getting stolen right?

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In areas of contract dispute they'll tell you to resolve it in civil court. You stop payment when you've gotten goods, there's criminal charges absolutely when there's no viable reason to stop payment.

But you get shit repaired, it's not done right as you discover after payment, the guy refuses to resolve it...and you stop payment on the repair check...there's no theft. There's a contract dispute. That needs to resolve in civil court. Now maybe you're a douche and you're just SAYING that...again civil court. But you might be charged criminally afterwards based on what happens there (if they take the transcript over to the police or DA and ask charges be filed if you say shit like 'I just didn't want to pay' or it's found that the repairs were fine and you had no basis to stop payment).

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